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Can't Program Higher Value CVs With Digitrax Zephyr Xtra

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Can't Program Higher Value CVs With Digitrax Zephyr Xtra
Posted by SooLine720 on Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:39 PM

I would like to program some things (Sound volume CVs) with my Loksound Intermountain SD40-2 but I can't enter any CVs that are high like CV316, etc. I have the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra and I am programming an HO scale locomotive. When I try to enter something like CV316 it simply doesn't let me enter in the number. Resets didn't help. Am I missing something?

-Khang Lu, University of Minnesota Railroad Club

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Posted by Holshot14 on Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:42 PM

Same problem here. Same system trying to program high CVs in the 3-4-5 hundreds an the IMR ES44's. ,won't let me do it.

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, May 28, 2014 9:33 PM

First, if you happen to have a DT402 or JMRI with a PC interface, you can use one of them to program higher numbered CV's, even with the Zephyr as your command station.

 

Second, which Loksound is it?  Version 4.0 has an indexed programming method for command stations that don't support the higher numbered CVs.  If ti is a 4.0, look at the instructions for ptogramming with a ROCO Multimaus.

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, May 28, 2014 11:25 PM

The ESU engineers have taken these exceptions into account and provided a fairly easy process for adjusting the Extended Range CV's manually.

 
Manual Programming Procedure
 
 
In order to make full programming possible on any DCC system, ESU has implemented an on-board assistance tool.
 
This tool allows you to write the number of the desired CV temporarily into two assisting CV's (so-called address registers), since the usual CV's cannot be reached. 
 
Next the value of the desired CV will be programmed into another assisting CV (so-called value register). When the value register is written, the content will be copied to the actual desired position and the assisting CV's will be reset back to 0. 
 
Consequently, 3 CVs have to be programmed to write one CV. 
 
These 3 CVs are described as follows: 

CV96 - Address Offset (0 - 9) - Saves the CV number that should be actually programmed in hundreds. 

CV97 - Address Offset (0 - 99) - Saves the CV number that should be actually programmed in units and tens. 

CV99 - Value (0 - 255) - Saves the CV value that should be actually programmed. 

Example: 
 
You wish to program CV 317 with value 120. 

Proceed as follows: 

Program the value of the CV number in hundreds in CV 96. 

In this example: CV 96 = 3. 

Program the value of the CV number in units and tens in CV 97. 

In this example: CV 97 = 17. 

Program the desired value in CV 99. 

In this example: CV 99 = 120. 
 
As soon as you have programmed CV 99, the value of CV 99 will be transferred into CV 317. 
 
Once the programming is finished, CV's 96, 97 and 99 will be set back to 0 automatically. 

CAUTION:
 
Be sure to program the CV's in order starting with 96 as the data will be automatically written to the CV's once the value in 99 is entered.
 
This procedure is ONLY needed when programming CV’s above 255 on a system that cannot access extended range CV's.

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:24 AM

Hi Mark!

I think you just explained why I have been having trouble using my new Lokprogrammer to change higher value CV's.

I will give your process a try.

Thanks again for sharing your detailed knowledge.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Holshot14 on Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:56 AM

That is great info, thanks for the insight. I will try it out!

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Posted by SooLine720 on Friday, May 30, 2014 3:09 PM

Mark R.

The ESU engineers have taken these exceptions into account and provided a fairly easy process for adjusting the Extended Range CV's manually.

 
Manual Programming Procedure
 
 
In order to make full programming possible on any DCC system, ESU has implemented an on-board assistance tool.
 
This tool allows you to write the number of the desired CV temporarily into two assisting CV's (so-called address registers), since the usual CV's cannot be reached. 
 
Next the value of the desired CV will be programmed into another assisting CV (so-called value register). When the value register is written, the content will be copied to the actual desired position and the assisting CV's will be reset back to 0. 
 
Consequently, 3 CVs have to be programmed to write one CV. 
 
These 3 CVs are described as follows: 

CV96 - Address Offset (0 - 9) - Saves the CV number that should be actually programmed in hundreds. 

CV97 - Address Offset (0 - 99) - Saves the CV number that should be actually programmed in units and tens. 

CV99 - Value (0 - 255) - Saves the CV value that should be actually programmed. 

Example: 
 
You wish to program CV 317 with value 120. 

Proceed as follows: 

Program the value of the CV number in hundreds in CV 96. 

In this example: CV 96 = 3. 

Program the value of the CV number in units and tens in CV 97. 

In this example: CV 97 = 17. 

Program the desired value in CV 99. 

In this example: CV 99 = 120. 
 
As soon as you have programmed CV 99, the value of CV 99 will be transferred into CV 317. 
 
Once the programming is finished, CV's 96, 97 and 99 will be set back to 0 automatically. 

CAUTION:
 
Be sure to program the CV's in order starting with 96 as the data will be automatically written to the CV's once the value in 99 is entered.
 
This procedure is ONLY needed when programming CV’s above 255 on a system that cannot access extended range CV's.
 

I tried it on the direct programming track but nothing happened. So first CV96, then CV97, then CV99? Thats what I did and nothing happened.

-Khang Lu, University of Minnesota Railroad Club

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Posted by cacole on Friday, May 30, 2014 4:43 PM

The LokSound Select User Manual states that CV 32 must be set to a value of 1 before any of the Volume Control CVs 259 through 443 are reset, so perhaps the instructions above are not correct for the Select since there's no mention of CV 32.

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Posted by Holshot14 on Friday, May 30, 2014 8:23 PM

Didn't work for me, and I did set the register value CV 32 to 1 before attempting this. Tried it on main and prog track. 

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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, May 30, 2014 8:35 PM

That method works for both 4.0 and Select decoders.

What specifically are you trying to change ? Did you power cycle the engine after the change ?

 

Mark.

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Posted by Holshot14 on Saturday, May 31, 2014 6:46 AM

Yes, I did the power cycle. personally I'm trying to get the e bell to ring when the horn blows.

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Posted by mfm37 on Saturday, May 31, 2014 6:59 AM

 Would setting the DCS51 to "Blast mode" help?

Martin Myers

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Posted by cacole on Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:26 AM

The bell and horn are controlled by two separate functions, so you probably cannot do what you want without having the bell ring ONLY when the horn is blowing.  As soon as you release the horn button the bell would also stop.

You seem to desire something that NO sound decoder supports.

 

 

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Posted by Holshot14 on Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:24 PM

cacole

The bell and horn are controlled by two separate functions, so you probably cannot do what you want without having the bell ring ONLY when the horn is blowing.  As soon as you release the horn button the bell would also stop.

You seem to desire something that NO sound decoder supports.

 

 

 

Cacole, please know what you are talking about before you post, or at least have some insight to acomplish the task at hand.  The new Loksound decoders do have this function and it is CV  323 on the factory programmed IMR loksound decoders. 

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Posted by cacole on Saturday, May 31, 2014 2:07 PM

The LokSound Select User Manual lists CV 323 as the Injector volume control for a steam locomotive or Detector Sound volume control for a diesel decoder, and that is the decoder the OP is asking about.

The LokSound V4.0 decoder CV 323 is the Air Letoff volume in both diesel and electric locomotive sound files, and the ESU web site shows no "newer" Loksound decoders.

Perhaps some other brand such as Zimo can do what the OP desires in having the bell automatically start ringing when the horn button is pressed, but I know of no way to get a LokSound to do it.

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, May 31, 2014 3:22 PM

In the Intermountain GEVO sound file, CV 323 is the volume for the e-bell. From the factory, the volume is set to 0, essentially turning it off. To activate the e-bell, turn the volume up using CV323. Be sure to set CV31 to 16 and CV32 to 1 first.

With this setting, the bell will now ring when you blow the horn and continue to ring for 3 seconds after releasing F2 and with F1 turned off.

Cacole, factory installed Loksound decoders are quite often configured differently than the regular files. If you are not absolutely certain about the topic at hand, it would be best not to contribute to the confusion.

Mark.

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, May 31, 2014 3:41 PM

Mark R.
factory installed Loksound decoders are quite often configured differently than the regular files. If you are not absolutely certain about the topic at hand, it would be best not to contribute to the confusion.

There would be less confusion on this topic if either ESU or Intermountain posted on their websites supporting data for the installed decoders.

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, May 31, 2014 3:55 PM

maxman

 

 
Mark R.
factory installed Loksound decoders are quite often configured differently than the regular files. If you are not absolutely certain about the topic at hand, it would be best not to contribute to the confusion.

 

There would be less confusion on this topic if either ESU or Intermountain posted on their websites supporting data for the installed decoders.

 

Well, I can't argue that point. Having a Lokprogrammer easily solves all these questions as you can open and read the file. Unfortunately, everyone who buys these engines doesn't have that luxury. Guess that's why we have these forums in the interim ....

Mark. 

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Posted by cacole on Saturday, May 31, 2014 7:10 PM

Okay, so it appears that Intermountain is not using ESU sound files, but is creating their own.  That brings up a question of "what happens if you have to perform a decoder reset?  Do you lose all the custom sounds and functions?"

If Intermountain is going to diddle with factory settings, create custom files, or change functions from those specified by ESU's documentation, they should state that fact on their web site and in the documentation provided with the locomotive, along with an explanation of the changes they have made.

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, May 31, 2014 8:31 PM

 If programmed properly, a reset will simply reset all the CVs to whatever the creator of the sound file set them to. It won;t erase the sounds. ESU worked witht he OEMs to make sure they DID set things properly - apparantly there were a few early adopters who were not setting that one little checkbox when loading their custom sound project. That should all be behind us now, and a reset should be safe.

 The 'problem' is that the V4 and Select decoders can do just about anything you can possibly imagine. This is why there are so many possible CV settings, and this is what is driving the JMRI people nuts, trying to find a way to allow you to select any of these possible combinations in some sort of plain English representation. But there are thousands of combinations, if not tens of thousands. Not suitable for dropdown lista or screens full of check boxes. They are getting there.

 A custom sound project, the only way you cna possibly know what CV controls what is if the vendor tells you.

                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Holshot14 on Saturday, May 31, 2014 8:50 PM

Mark R.

In the Intermountain GEVO sound file, CV 323 is the volume for the e-bell. From the factory, the volume is set to 0, essentially turning it off. To activate the e-bell, turn the volume up using CV323. Be sure to set CV31 to 16 and CV32 to 1 first.

With this setting, the bell will now ring when you blow the horn and continue to ring for 3 seconds after releasing F2 and with F1 turned off.

Cacole, factory installed Loksound decoders are quite often configured differently than the regular files. If you are not absolutely certain about the topic at hand, it would be best not to contribute to the confusion.

Mark.

 

mark, thanks for the help!

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:33 PM

cacole

Okay, so it appears that Intermountain is not using ESU sound files, but is creating their own.  That brings up a question of "what happens if you have to perform a decoder reset?  Do you lose all the custom sounds and functions?"

If Intermountain is going to diddle with factory settings, create custom files, or change functions from those specified by ESU's documentation, they should state that fact on their web site and in the documentation provided with the locomotive, along with an explanation of the changes they have made.

 

This happens with most factory installations. ESU makes their files a certain way and the manufacturer modifies them to what "they" want them to work like. For example - a stock ESU file requires you to turn on F8 to start the engine. For whatever reason, Intermountain didn't like that, rather they wanted their engine to start up immediately upon being placed on powered rails - like a Tsunami. If anyone, blame the engine manufacturer for not providing information on their site or documentation stating what these features are. The Kato P42 is the same thing.

Also, in many cases, there are certain operating aspects that are unique to a particular engine. These features require different settings (CV's) for adjustments that may not be found on any other file. This makes it very difficult to create a blanket manual that covers all these variations. What is needed though, is documentation on the ESU download pages for each individual file explaining the adjustment changes for the unique features that are found in each file. ESU is well aware of this situation and are working towards getting this shortfall corrected, but being essentially a one-man operation, it's purely a time factor in trying to keep up with all that is required.

In the mean time, there are quite a few people out there that are very knowledgable of these decoders who are more than willing to help out.

Mark. 

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:39 PM

cacole

Okay, so it appears that Intermountain is not using ESU sound files, but is creating their own.  That brings up a question of "what happens if you have to perform a decoder reset?  Do you lose all the custom sounds and functions?"

If Intermountain is going to diddle with factory settings, create custom files, or change functions from those specified by ESU's documentation, they should state that fact on their web site and in the documentation provided with the locomotive, along with an explanation of the changes they have made.

 

Intermountain is using ESU's sound files - they are the exact sound file that is available for download on ESU's site. As a matter of fact, you can even download Intermountain's modified file from ESU's site as well which is located in their Manufacturer's Section. All the manufacturer's sound files (intermountain, Atlas, Bowser, etc.) are all available as a download should you need to replace the factory file. 

Unlike Tsunami, Loksound uses the exact same full featured file in all their decoders, whether it is a 4.0, Select or factory install. While the factory install may be configured differently, it's not a stripped down version made just for that particular engine.

Mark.

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Posted by cacole on Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:28 AM

Mark,

Thanks for that information about the modified files on the ESU web site.  I have a LokProgrammer and perform a lot of installs, but had never checked that part of their site because no one in our club has those factory-equipped models.

We do have a member who recently purchased a Rivarossi Big Boy with factory installed LokSound, but I don't see it listed among those files, so perhaps the sounds and functions are stock.  The decoder and speaker are in the boiler, and produce rather weak sound.

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Posted by Mark R. on Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:43 AM

The Big Boy is made for a  European manufacturer, and as such, uses a 4.0 decoder. That file is in the 4.0 OEM section on page 4. All European manufactured engines use the 4.0 - the Select decoders are a North American  only decoder.

Mark.

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