I need a monitor that is as short as possible so it doesn't obstruct the view of the track any more than necessary. What would you consider the minimum usable monitor size and resolution for JMRI?
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I used to run JMRI on an old 10" screen Dell NetBook computer. It had something like 800X600 resolution and 1MB of RAM, running Windows XP. Here is what JMRI says is the minimum hardware:
We have had a report that a 180MHz Pentium II is too slow to use, and another that a 330MHz Pentium II is fine, so somewhere around there is the minimum machine configuration, but it's important to have enough memory. We recommend you have at least 128MB of memory for Windows 98, and 256MB of memory for Windows 2000 or later. Having 256MB or 512MB respectively would give better performance. For the more complicated programmer screens, a display with a resolution of 800x600 or larger is strongly recommended. Note that used PC hardware is available for very little money; it might be cheaper to buy a used computer than to update your existing one.
You might want to join the JMRI Yahoo Group and ask this question. There is a lot of free information available!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
What about an old iPad running withrottle mounted to the fascia?
looking at the interface, I am pretty sure a 4.5" 800x600 will work but you may not see anything on it.
NP.
Tell us more about what you're trying to do.
Are you talking about a computer monitor for the machine (Mac or PC) actually running JMRI? If so, look at widescreen monitors. I have a 20" widescreen that's easily a couple inches or more shorter than a conventional 17" monitor.
Or are you talking about a tablet or similar device to mount on the fascia for use as a control panel? Then I'd say no smaller than maybe a 7" tablet. I've managed to fit my entire yard throat on one that size, without too many compromises.
I also have a couple 4" Android tablets I use for throttles, but I haven't even tried displaying a panel on those. Just from my experiences with the 7" tablet, I think they'd be too small to be very useful.
Oh, and either way (computer monitor or tablet), there are lots of ways to mount them to minimize how obstructive they are. For my tablet/yard throat panel, I used a headrest mount for a tablet. I just removed the clamps that go around the headrest tubes, and screwed it to a spacer block mounted on the fascia. That way, the yard operator can tilt or swivel it to his liking, and it remains out of the way of the layout itself.
Edit: Fixed typo
Stevert Tell us more about what you're trying to do.
I'm talking about the computer monitor where JMRI will be running. I plan on using it for operation of the railroad (although I don't exactly know how yet) and for decoder pro. I wasn't aware of the possibility of remote panels, although I had been planning on android throttles. Wife has an original iPad that could use an upgrade so that may be useful as a yard panel.
I have a decent computer available with a 3Ghz I5 processor and 8 GB of memory. The spare monitor is an old school 19" that is way too tall. I've been looking at wide screen 19" & 20" monitors that have flat bottoms so I could sit it on the workbench without a stand. They are about 10" tall which sounds pretty good.
So far I have only done enough research so that I know I want to use JMRI. I haven't studied it in detail yet or downloaded the code. My construction has reached the point where it's finally time to lay some track. It will need to be tested so I need to install the DCC system (I don't have a DC throttle). DCC means I'll need decoder pro since I don't want to waste time learning how to do all the setup manually.
Any advice you care to offer is welcome.
Oh. Got it. 15" widescreen is usually not cheap, these days volume on monitors < 18.5" is small. All the <18.5" stuff is integrated in lap tops and tablets. So I think you are on the right track with 18.5" Widescreen.
Re: other items, what is your DCC system? I myself have Digitrax. I found the Digitrax PR3 a good interface between JMRI and the layout. The PR3 has a programming track as well.
What do you plan to do with JMRI?
While there isn't that much that really needs done to program a decoder
Set the engine number and the Start, ACC and DCL values!
I can do that faster on the program track than waiting for the Computer and JMRI to come up!
NOW! - if you are getting into SOUND - then JMRI is the way to go!
As for the thoughts of running the layout with JMRI
Have fun!
Adding Detection into the track and plumbing wires to the Computer is all hardware
Very little is Computer programming!
BUT! - once you have the Hardwire mastered it can be fun!
So the JMRI is not a Turn on the Computer and expect it to run the trains - you will be months of wiring the layout until the first computer begins the control
Unless you are planning a VERY Minimal control!
Just be aware it isn't a Plug N Play thing!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
My DCC system is Digitrax. I have the RR-Cirkits Locobuffer USB to attach to the computer.
I understand this is not plug-n-play.
Things on the list for JMRI (level 1):
Further down the list (level 2):
Initial Automation (level 3)
More Advanced Automation (level 4)
Whatever other hair brained ideas I come up with.
Sounds like a very interesting project!
RFID has been an ongoing thought but it seems to have stalled due to scanner sensitivity (can't seem to narrow down the scanned area to only detect a single car instead of the whole yard at a time - was the last I heard)! There may be a Yahoo Group on this.
As for Restaging trains by itself!
Good Luck! Having a train running unattended (no matter how good the equipment or trackwork is) the train WILL DERAIL and if there is no one watcuing the cars just keep on going on the floor - BEEN THERE!
I just use a magnet wand and remove my coal loads and my trains are restagged!
I have 20 guys in every two weeks so a Computer is useless as OPERATIONS is the reason for the layout not automation! But Automation can be an interesting direction to go!
Keep us informed of your progress! I might be able to get some ideas (especialy RFID)!
This is cool, you have phases of implementation. Very realistic. I am with other comments: wiring left a lot of scars on my fingers and in my heart. Painful, especially signals :-(. But there is a certain satisfaction to watching a train leave a section, and signals dropping to red.
I believe Digitrax has "transponding" function which gives you the loco that is in a given section. Note that the finer control you want, the smaller your sections have to be and the more complex your signalling logic will be.
I have no automated running trains. Good luck!!
The transponding is also an interssting function. I looked into it a while back. Not sure I want to lock myself into only Digitrax decoders. RFID has a huge price advantage. Just a few readers in strategic locations and with the aid of a little logic I should be able to keep track of who's where. RFID chips are also really cheap. I was at a conference in Las Vegas last week. They had put RFID chips in everybody's badge so they could collect data on who attended which sessions - I think there were about 7,000 attendees.
Okay, your monitor size question is more of an ergonomic one than a technical one. JMRI can run headless (lots of folks are using Raspberry Pi's), so the actual answer is "zero". But that's not a helpful answer.
Only you can decide how much of a visual block is tolerable vs. how small you can go on screen size without having your head hurt, especially after a period of time.
Maybe the answer is a laptop, so you can swivel the screen back (and therefore down) when you need to see more of the layout, and back up when you need to see the screen. Otherwise, all I can suggest is to shrink JMRI panes on your existing monitor until they get "too small", and then find a monitor that size.
Or do the opposite, get a monitor who's size you can live with and tailor your JMRI panes to work well with that size. That's the way I went about creating the yard throat panel for the fascia-mounted tablet. I developed it on a much larger PC monitor, but sized it to work well on the tablet.
Also, you may want to join the JMRI Yahoo! group (or search the JMRI group's archives, they're open to the public) for your RFID project. I'm pretty sure that topic has been discussed there before. The problem is getting the sensitivity high enough without also reading parallel tracks. I'm sure it worked well enough at the convention you mentioned, but there's a significant spatial difference between a full-sized human walking through a full-sized door, and two HO-sized models on adjacent tracks.
Stevert I'm sure it worked well enough at the convention you mentioned, but there's a significant spatial difference between a full-sized human walking through a full-sized door, and two HO-sized models on adjacent tracks.
I'm sure it worked well enough at the convention you mentioned, but there's a significant spatial difference between a full-sized human walking through a full-sized door, and two HO-sized models on adjacent tracks.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The convention reference was not intended to be an example of how well it worked. I was talking about the RFID tags being so cheap that the conference host was able to put them on 7000 people.
My thinking was that if I had RFID readers on the single track leading into and out of the staging yards on each end of the layout, I could use that info to determine which train was occupying a block as it moved over the layout. For example, if I read the RFID for train 97 in block 1, I would know the train that just moved into block 2 would be 97.
Digitrax 'Transponding' can be done with other decoders, you just need the Digitrax transponder like the TL1. IIRC, Soundtraxx also has Digitrax transponding built in to their Tsunami sound decoders. That said, it seems to take some 'tweaking' to get it all working correctly.
RFID sounds promising, but most of the reports I have heard mention overlap issues as the receivers are usually made to operate from 3' or greater. Maybe there is more sensative receivers. A RFID in each freight car would be great for location!
My first layout with 'staging' had three tracks completely 'hidden'. The current layout has 'open' staging hidden behind a large ridge - Very easy to stage cars. One can make staging so 'hidden' that it is quite hard to figure out what is in there or if it is derailed!
Depends Ono the RFID. There is a standard called NFC (near field communication) which has <4" or <40 mm (can't remember which). The NFC tags can be as cheap as $0.40 each for 1,000 and are about 1" in diameter. Smaller might be available, probably better for limiting the range.
The issue is parallel tracks. I almost always need detection in sidings and I don't know how to be 100% sure. Of course if you constrained it well, it could work. Lots to look at/work through.
NP
jrbernierMy first layout with 'staging' had three tracks completely 'hidden'. The current layout has 'open' staging hidden behind a large ridge - Very easy to stage cars. One can make staging so 'hidden' that it is quite hard to figure out what is in there or if it is derailed!
My lower staging yard is under the lower visable level. I have 6" of verticle clearance and will have no fascia blocking access. I have arranged the yard ladders so that all the turnouts are within 1-2" of the front edge. My upper staging is the top of the lighting valance for the upper level so it is completely visable from a stepstool.
Large ambitions in small rooms requires thinking is terms of cubic feet vs square feet.
BTW, on the RFID receviers, I think you mean LESS sensitive to mitigate the overlap issue.
jrbernierThat said, it seems to take some 'tweaking; to get it all working correctly.
I'm ok with tweaking... it's just twerking I have a problem with.
Simplest solution, locat the dispatcher who will be using the panel elsewhere, ie not up against the railroad. The larger the screen, the easier it will be to use for the dispatcher.
17" and 19" widescreens are cheap cheap. Even the 22-24" sizes are pretty cheap these days. A 19" widescreen won't even be as tall as a 17" 4:3 screen. If you MUST mount it on the layout, look for one that has a VESA mount available - that way it doesn;t have to use the normal base and stand that they come with, instead you can get a bracket to mount just the screen part right to the layout. But I still say, put it away from the layout. You cna just run a Loconet cable from the Locobuffer to the rest of the layout as needed. Not having the DS sit right in front of the layout means no cheating by just looking around.
Depending on the size of the layout, more than one display is not out of the question. Our club modular layout can be up to 160 or so feet long, and it fully signaled. For that computer, there are two displays to stretch the layout schematic over while not crowding all the controls the DS uses to line routes.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.