I am working on converting a Walthers/ Life-Like FA-1 conversion, and I was wondering how do I tell if the brushes and motor are isolated from the frame? Thanks.
My Layout Photos- http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/ajwarshal/library/
Yes, the motor is isolated. It's a pretty easy hard-wire conversion -- you can use the very simple PC board as the starting point for the hard-wire decoder.
My Walther's HO scale H12-44 has a motor with two halves. Both halves are electrically connected to each brush holder. Use an ohm meter to check. If you see zero ohms, they are connected. No way to isolate the brush from each motor half, at least in mine. A plastic spacer isolates each motor frame half.
I use $5.00 multimeters from Harbor Freight. Lowe's and Home Depot sell similar meters. Few dollars more. If you plan to do a lot of electrical in DCC, you should have a couple of these meters.
The below are someones experiences with these meters. Not opinions.
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm
I had to use Kapton tape between the motor and frame sections. Nylon screws replaced the metal screws.
Your mileage may vary.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Thank you for all the info.
You can visually inspect the motor and brushes to see if there is any contact with the metal frame.
"DCC Ready" locomotives typically isolate these parts with plastic cradles of some sort.
Also, it would not be unheard of for a wire to be grounded to the frame, e.g. the Proto S1 and S3.
But, by all means, use a meter to verify.
Don't assume the best or you just might experience the worst - - - a fried decoder.
Alton Junction
I guess You didn't look at Your other thread:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/locos.htm
Read 8-8, Scroll down page for motor isolation and using meters and also headlights.
Frank
Frank, that web site has a lot of good info, but it is too sketchy with regard to the OP's basic issues.
He is trying to convert a DC loco, not assuredly DCC Ready, to DCC.
You should cut him some slack.
He is in need of advice, and hand holding, to pull this off without frying the decoder.
I feel for him.
Rich,
Sounds like You didn't read it either. It tells you how to and what to look for when isolating the motor from DC to DCC and how to use a meter to test it.
I don't see how that would be misleading him in any way.
I'll stay out of it. Have it Your way.
Frank, I basically have that web site memorized.
It is not that you have misled him in any way.
It is just that someone who is not familiar with DC conversions to DCC, especially with locos that are not DCC Reeady, is not going to become competent after reading that web site link.
Without some advice and hand holding, so to speak, someone without prior hands on experience is at risk of frying the decoder, especially one like the D13SR which calls for a hard wire install.
Quote:
The link that was given, specifically speaks of installing that Decoder and what is the difference, between reading from a pros. experience, or reading from a Forum members experience.
Bye!
Frank, I am not criticizing you or the link that you provided. Allan Gartner is a top flight pro, and his website is must reading.
I just feel that you are being unduly harsh with the OP, by discouraging him from asking for advice on the forum, telling him instead to read the pertinent info on the web site.
Here is verabtim, what Allan has to say about motor isolation.
RECOMMENDATION 8-8: ALWAYS Ensure That Neither Motor Lead is Grounded to Your Locomotive's Frame
That's right. Don't trust me. If I say that the motor in a particular locomotive is not grounded to the frame, don't believe me. Who knows for sure that the motor that came with your locomotive is the same as the one in mine. If you have a different motor, your decoder could be destroyed. So always check that neither motor lead is connected to your locomotive's frame. Do this by connecting an ohm meter between either motor lead and try every wheel. Then do the other motor lead and all the wheels. Note: The motor frame in all likelyhood is connected to your frame. This isn't a problem. It's the leads to the motor, the ones you will soon attach decoder wires to, that are your concern.
Make sure your motor is isolated from the power pick-up wheels. This usually means the motor should be isolated from the metal frame. If you are not sure about whether the motor needs isolation from the metal frame, isolate it. This is not a waste of time. In only rare cases can the motor remain attached to a metal frame.
Frank, you and I understand this. The OP may not. And who are we, you and me, to say that the OP didn't read this advice, as you suggested?
I noticed that there are two solder points on the current wires. Which ones do I put the decoder into (the one on the top, or the ones directly connecting to the wheels)? There are pics in the other DCC post by me. Thanks.
And a HUGE thank you to richhotrain.
Alex, there are seven wires on the D13SR, orange, gray, red, black, yellow, white and blue. If you don't have a rear light, then you will only be concerned with six of the wires, orange and gray, red and black, and white and blue.
I cannot tell from the photos on the other thread where some of those wires are coming from. But, you want to connect the two motor wires to the orange and gray wires on the decoder. The pick up wires, two on the left side and two on the right side, are connected to the red and black wires on the decoder. The two left side power pickups go to one wire and the two right side power pickups go to the other wire. Lastly, the blue and white wires from the decoder connect to the headlght wires.
Be sure to confirm the voltage on that headlamp.
Thanks for the info. The front two wires go the the front wheels, back two go to the back wheels, and the middle go to the motor. So would I remove the old wires once after I attached the new wires?
Removed.
Trace the wires to correctly identify where they are coming from. NMRA standards dictate that the right rail is positive (+) and the left rail is negative. So, the left side of the front truck and the rear truck are wired for negative polarity and the right side of the front truck and the rear truck are wired for positive polarity. Join the right side wires from the trucks to the decoder's red wire, and join the left side wires from the trucks to the decoder's black wire. Connect the two motor wires to the decoder's orange and black wires. If the loco runs backward, flip the orange and gray wire connections.
Thank you for all the help. I am now ready to proceed. I may need your help in the future, and I so I will send you a DM.
Before Frank got ornery, LOL, he gave you a good link on that other thread. Here it is again.
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/WalthersFA-1.htm
Follow those installation instructions, and you will be good to go. Just be sure to protect the decoder from shorting on the circuit board and check out the voltage of that headlight if you decide to keep it.
Thank you, I read the link and I have at least two others explaining how to do it in detail, along with your posts in this thread. Your help, and everyone else's was appreciated.
Hmm, just which loco is this? The old Walther Trainline ones, which are really great runners but use the old Train-Miniature shells and really could use some added details, or the Proto 2000 ones, which were released long before Walthera bought Life Like, and there are several versions. The first runs have a slot in the rear pulley for a rubber band to drive the radiator fan and are otherwise Athearn clone mechanisms that are NOT isolated, the newer ones have an improved chassis with an isolated motor. Both have highly detailed shells with individual grabs and lift rings and so forth.
The later P2K is an easy conversion. The Trainline model is medium - the motor is isolated and the wires are pretty obvious, but it requires hard wiring. The original P2K release with the Athearn clone drive will be the hardest, needing a procedure like an Athearn Blue Box loco.
The Trainline loco is simply amazing. I picked up a few cheap on that auction site everyone loves to hate. Before bidding I dug op the MR review from when they were new - on pure DC the minimum speed was 0.5 SMPH! On DCC they run eveyr bit as well, if you use a decent decoder.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy, the OP included some photos of the loco in another thread.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/229861/2568654.aspx#2568654
If this is of any assistance, TCS has excellent instructions for installing a decoder in the early LL P2K FA1.
Yes, that's the same one I have, the Walthers Trainline model. Old Train Miniature shell with improved drive. Super duper easy to hard wire. The wires at the very ends of the circuit board on both sides are the track pickups, the wires near the rear middle are the motor wires. Add a 5mm LED and 1K resistor on the white and blue wires (blue is +), all done! I cut off all but the very rear of the circuit board and taped the decoder to it so it wouldn;t move round and get caught in the mechanism.
Thank you Randy for the info. Can you please post some pictures of the finished wire conversion. Thanks
-Alex
Also what type/brand of 5mm LED and 1K resistor did you use and where did you get them.
Thanks again.
LED was a Miniatronics Yelo-Glo. 1K resistors you can get anywhere, even Radio Shack. Basic 1/4 watt resistor, nothing special. There's plenty of room inside so if they are out of 1/4 watt, you cna get 1/2 watt which are physcially larger but will work just fine, since there's plenty of room inside the loco.