A fast question with a yes/no answer (I hope).
Can I use transformers (12.5 Volts) as boosters on my DCC set-up? I have the NCE Power-Cab. I was wondering as I have 6 transformers just setting there collecting dust. I planned to wire them onto the track every 10 feet or so.
Thanks, Bob
I tried searching for the answer but you can't imagine the results I got. It must be a really dumb question!
Living in Lincolnton,Georgia
BOB
NO!
A transformer generates 60 cycle AC at a reduced voltage from house voltage.
A booster generates a complex DCC signal with much higher frequencies, and is not a sine wave.
Why do you think you need a DCC booster? Your Power Cab has a small booster (1.7 or 2 amp depending on version) built into it. DCC booster size and number is based on number of engines running simultaneously, not on length of track. The Power Cab will run at least 3 engines simultaneously, which is 2 more than I want to try to control with a single throttle.
If you need more engines (and throttles) than the Power Cab can handle, the NCE Super Booster puts out 5 amps and uses your existing Power Cab as a throttle.
Fred W
Ole NYC Engineer: A fast question with a yes/no answer
A fast question with a yes/no answer
No.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Yikes, "heck no"!
Put the transformers on Ebay, and buy yourself a legitimate DCC component. As the previous posters indicated, mixing AC and DC and DCC can seriously cause you problems and expense.
ENJOY!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
A power transformer made to lower AC sine-wave house voltage cannot handle higher frequencies such as those put out by a DCC command station without causing a lot of distortion of the DCC signal, which is a high frequency square wave -- so the answer is NO, you cannot use those transformers as a DCC booster.
BOB,
To The Forums.
As others have already stated, NO.
But you can keep a couple of those 12.6v transformers, the ones rated at least 2amp, for powering incandescent bulbs for lighting buildings and street lights on your layout like Miniatronics grain of wheat bulbs, 12-14v AC/DC.
Frank
BTW: If the transformers look like this, keep a couple: Two black leads are the primary, where your house current connects to. Three leads on other side is the secondary, two greens,12.6volts, one green and yellow 6.3volts and other green and yellow 6.3volts, for two separate circuits, requirring 6.3v.
Products >>
You're either a few days late with this question -- or about a year early.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
zstripe As others have already stated, NO. But you can keep a couple of those 12.6v transformers, the ones rated at least 2amp, for powering incandescent bulbs for lighting buildings and street lights on your layout like Miniatronics grain of wheat bulbs, 12-14v AC/DC.
And for trackside signals, for powering Tortoises, for control panel toggle switches and LEDs, etc. etc. etc.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks.
I do intend to use a couple for lights, switches, etc.
The reason I asked is I have 6 DCC equiped locos and I have to power all the way to I'm u step 90 to get any of them to move. I'm using KATO unitrack and have power feeders every 2/3 feet. I didnt have any problems when my setp was DC. I thought DCC was easier to wire but I must be doing someting wrong. I did find that the KATO feeders have to be turned the correct way or a short occurs. I'm using quick splice connectors so I know I'm getting good contact.
Any idea what I'm doing wrong? The track run is approx a 12X4 flat oval (nothing fancy, I just wanted to try out the DCC before I glue anything down).
Thanks again,
Bob in Ga
Bob,
I suggest that You review this site, very helpful info:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm
Ole NYC EngineerThe reason I asked is I have 6 DCC equiped locos and I have to power all the way to I'm u step 90 to get any of them to move.
Although it is unlikely that all 6 locos could have the same problem, you should check to see that the track voltage is proper. With all the locos off the tracks use a volt meter to check from one rail to the other at several points around the railroad. You should read somewhere around 14 volts AC everywhere. If you read 14 volts, then the problem is with the locos. They might need to have their starting voltage CVs adjusted. But check the track voltage first and report back as to what you find.
Checked 6 spots and got from 13.5 to 14.2.
Were you using the PowerCab for power with the DC hooked to the track, too? That may have caused the PowerCab to fail.
Some DCC systems do support running ONE DC-powered loco. Six just won't work. Some like NCE do NOT support any DC locos -- all must be decoder equipped.I presume only your PowerCab is wired to the tracks. Do any of your locos operate properly on the section of track where the power is connected from the PowerCab?
Some decoders support both DC and DCC operation. What brand decoders are in your locos equipped with DCC decoders?
Ole NYC Engineer Checked 6 spots and got from 13.5 to 14.2.
My Power Cab shows around 13.6 VAC. It will trip if to much power is required.
Build a good supply of links in Favorites about how DCC works. It will help you a lot. You have the power at your finger tips.
You can get a basic good three amp booster for under $100.00. Just need to add a power supply which is no big deal.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
mlehmanWere you using the PowerCab for power with the DC hooked to the track, too? That may have caused the PowerCab to fail.
I haven't read anything where he says that there was a failure of the PowerCab. Nor have I read anything which indicates that he had the PowerCab and a transformer connected to the track at the same time.
His issue seems to be that he has to get the PowerCab up to speed step 90 before his locos move.
He indicated that he has checked the voltage around the layout and has what appears to be the proper voltage. My initial WAG on this is that the starting voltage CV needs to be adjusted on his engines. However, it would be nice to find out what brand locos and decoders he has before proceeding further.
maxman mlehman Were you using the PowerCab for power with the DC hooked to the track, too? That may have caused the PowerCab to fail. I haven't read anything where he says that there was a failure of the PowerCab. Nor have I read anything which indicates that he had the PowerCab and a transformer connected to the track at the same time.
True, but things were so confusing, it's got me confused. I just wanted to be sure we're all on the same page here.
maxmanMy initial WAG on this is that the starting voltage CV needs to be adjusted on his engines.
Yeah, that's possible. It's also possible there are six sound locos, which might exceed the Power Cab's capacity. I rather doubt it, but if he's got that many locos on the track starting at once, it will be pushing towards the Power Cab's capacity.
Are your six locos really DCC decoder equipped or just "DCC Ready"? The admittedly confusing term "DCC Ready" does not mean they are actually ready to be run on a DCC equipped layout. It usually means that there is an 8 or 9 pin plug installed that will accept a similarly equipped DCC decoder. Having never tried to run a straight DC loco on any DCC system, I don't really know how one would react. Does this behaviour sound familiar to anyone who has tried this?
Hornblower
hornblowerAre your six locos really DCC decoder equipped or just "DCC Ready"? The admittedly confusing term "DCC Ready" does not mean they are actually ready to be run on a DCC equipped layout.
Hornblower,
Yeah, that was one of the things I was trying to get nailed down here. I suspect some misunderstanding like that is afoot here.
Quote:
The reason I asked is I have 6 DCC equiped locos and I have to power all the way to I'm u step 90 to get any of them to move. I'm using KATO unitrack and have power feeders every 2/3 feet. I didnt have any problems when my setp was DC. I thought DCC was easier to wire but I must be doing someting wrong.
I suspect, they are DCC ready, according to the above statement.
They may not work at all or barely run,buzzing all the way home.
Yup,
DC and DCC really don't mix, despite so many trying to do so. Take your pick, one or the other, but don't try to mix, match, add, multiply, subtract or divide by each other UNLESS you're an expert at both. Problem is, most of those who want to do so are at the other end of the skill spectrum. You'll melt down more stuff than you'll ever save money on by cutting corners and trying to do both at the same time.
This is one of those threads that seems to spell TROUBLE.
Thinking of using DC power packs as boosters and possibly running DC equipment on a DCC powered layout???
Dunno.
Sorry for the delay getting back.
To clear things up- I bought these locos from a store and they all are factory DCC equipped. Bachmann & Atlas.
I only have the PowerCab for power and only have one engine on the track at a time. No transformers are hooked to anything. These locos are new and were never used on my DC layout.
After much reading on DCC operation it appears I need to program each engine and it should fix my problem. I was only using a temporary set-up to test my engines and familarize my use of DCC.
I have a very sick wife (stroke) and will be putting things on hold for a while. Thanks to all that tried to help and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. I really enjoy reading the posts and solutions. I'm learning something new every time I check in. (At 76 learning new stuff is hard to find a place to store it). If I've learned anything from this it's to keep my DC Transformers away from the DCC track.
OK, that clears things up a lot. No bridges -- or electronics -- burnt, so we can all relax about that. I didn't start learning DCC until I was 50, so I know what you're saying about the steep learning curve for those of us who didn't grow up around PC and Macs
Bachmann stuff probably comes set to address 3. Yes, you'll want to give each loco a unique address, probably its road number. If you layout is small and you're OK with taking the other locos off while programming the loco you're working on, you can use the entire layout as the Programming track. Otherwise, a piece of flex track mounted on a board will do. The PowerCab can do Ops mode programming of the loco address with NCE decoders, but I suspect Bachmann will require using the Programming Track to do that.
There are lots of other options on settings, but once you have each loco uniquely addressable, the factory settings should allow everything to work without further programming, so you should be good to go at that point unless there are things you want changed. Should also be able to use Ops mode programming to do those without needing to use the Programming track.
Keep in mind, if you do any work inside the loco, it's always good to place the loco on the Programming track first and let it check for any shorts at the reduced power it puts out. It saves a lot of trouble with fried decoders to test mods and repairs this way first before applying full track power.
Good luck with things. A hobby is a good way to keep perspective on more important and more demanding things in life. We're here to help, so please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
Ole NYC Engineer To clear things up- I bought these locos from a store and they all are factory DCC equipped. Bachmann & Atlas. I only have the PowerCab for power and only have one engine on the track at a time. No transformers are hooked to anything. These locos are new and were never used on my DC layout. After much reading on DCC operation it appears I need to program each engine and it should fix my problem. I was only using a temporary set-up to test my engines and familarize my use of DCC.
Ok, there are two pieces of good news here.
The OP is not using DC power packs as boosters on his DCC layout, and the locos are DCC equipped, so they have decoders already installed.
But, one problem remains unresolved. None of those 6 locos even begin to move until he reaches speed step 90.
So, he still has a problem.
Rich,
I agree, but I think we'll have to be patient and work in assisting with MRR stuff around caregiving and other responsibilities. Probably nothing that some work with CVs 2 thru 6 can't solve.
Then there's the issue of those dang capacitors hanging like leeches from the motors on those Bachmanns. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it after some CV work.
mlehman Probably nothing that some work with CVs 2 thru 6 can't solve.
Probably nothing that some work with CVs 2 thru 6 can't solve.
It will be interesting to see how this is resolved. It is really strange that all six locos are not moving until speed step 90. Seems like it is going to be something more than just adjusting those CVs. Just a reset to factory defaults ought to make those locos move a lot sooner than speed step 90.
Maybe not so strange. You can do a lot of amazing -- and frustrating -- things with a PowerCab. For instance, if all six locos were on the layout and you entered Programming Track mode thinking you were changing CVs on just one loco, you could easily reset all six to something funky without even realizing it. I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of this with a little more info from the OP.