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Train wont run, sound and lights work

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Train wont run, sound and lights work
Posted by Moses45 on Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:55 PM

Yep, 4 weeks ago it would run. This a BLI DCC loco (K4). Sound works, lights work, smoke works. The thing will not move. Whats going on? Digitrax DCC.

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Posted by cowman on Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:18 PM

Have you tried resetting the decoder.  On my BLIPacific, it is in the tender.  Follow the instructions that came with the loco.  It resets everything, so the primary address is 3 and all other functions return to their original settings.  If that does not do it, send BLI an email.  They were prompt responding to my questions.

Good luck,

Richard

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Posted by cacole on Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:28 PM

Are you sure you don't have it in partial shutdown?  Is it a BLI wiht QSI or Paragon2 decoder?  Check the documentaton and see what it says about bringing the model back to life after a shutdown.

I've had some QSI decoders that needed to be reprogrammed to wake them up after going through a shutdown sequence.  Fortunately, all the decoder settings were saved to a hard drive.

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 16, 2014 5:19 AM

Moses45

Yep, 4 weeks ago it would run. This a BLI DCC loco (K4). Sound works, lights work, smoke works. The thing will not move. Whats going on? Digitrax DCC.

 

I haven't looked it up, but what product line is it?  Paragon, Paragon 2, or Blue Line?

Which factory installed decoder?

Rich

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Posted by Moses45 on Sunday, March 16, 2014 2:25 PM

My old buddy Rich. How are you doing. We just went thru an issue with adding new track and you helped me by pointing me to the AR 1 reversers. After installing these, I still had a short. So, I completely disconnected the new track from the old layout. I then decided to run on my old layout to see if it was still working. With no trains on the track the Digitrack DCS50 reads normal. When I apllied the quarter trick I get walking o's, which is an indication of a track short somewhere. The original train I posted about is a Broadway Limited Loco with the Paragon system. I tried an older DCC train and it ran in fits and jerks. I suspected the issue is where I added turnouts on either side of the existing layout to attach my new track. Once I get the original layout going, I will reconnect the additional track and see if it works OK.

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 16, 2014 2:41 PM

Moses, doin' fine, sounds like I am doing better than you.

What's going on with that layout?

Sounds like some crossed feeder wires.

Rich

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Posted by Moses45 on Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:45 PM

 Since the whole layout was showing a short, I decided to disconnect the new part and see if my old layout worked. It worked until I "improved" it to add on the new trackage. I added a couple of turnouts to the old layout to connect to the new part and this has to be the source of my error. Going to have to go back and check every feeder. I guess it could even be a bad connector between sections. The two tunouts I added lead to nothing now, so I doubt the problem is there.

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:56 PM

OK, let's walk through this process one step at a time.

The old layout was working fine, no shorts, correct?

Then, you added those two turnouts to begin the extension to the new layout, and the short appeared, correct?

The turnouts that you added are not connected to the new portion of the layout yet, correct?

If this is all correct, then you cross wired the feeders when you added the new turnouts.  

If you didn't add any feeders when you added the new turnouts, then what kind of turnouts did you add?

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 16, 2014 4:08 PM

davidmbedard

Try hitting F6 a few hundred times.....you are in disconnect mode.

David B

 

I agree with David, but twice on the F6 button should be sufficient.

Rich

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Posted by Moses45 on Sunday, March 16, 2014 4:59 PM

I didnt add feeders. The only turnouts that had a 22' turnout, with a straight main were Atlas. I am wondering if it isnt the DCS50  as this happens with more than one train. The trains wont move on the old layout, new layout or programming track. One train will move a lttle bit and then it short circuits.

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 16, 2014 5:17 PM

Moses, if you didn't add feeders and only installed a pair of Atlas turnouts not connected to anything, then there would be no shorts if ther weren't any shorts before.

So, if the old layout was running fine and then you simply added two Atlas turnouts, it doesn't add up.  Something had to be wrong before you added the turnouts.

Once you disconnected the new portion of the layout from the old, what makes you think that you have a short on the old layout?

Rich

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Posted by Moses45 on Sunday, March 16, 2014 5:41 PM

I know it doesnt make sense. But, there you have it. The old layout worked fine until I added more track. So I decided to try the old track. My command station sent me a "walkin o" which indicates a short. So, to break it down into smaller bites, I disconnected the new addition and that left only the old layout. I tried to to run a train on the old layout and got a walking o again. So I tried to run the train on just a 6 ft. section. It shows a short also. So I tried another train on the 6 footer. Still showing short. Then, I tried it on the new layout. It shows a short.I find it hard to beleive all my trains suddenly have shorts and all track arrangement s have shorts. I think the command station may have gone south on me.

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 16, 2014 5:57 PM

Moses45

I think the command station may have gone south on me.

 

That could be, but it would not be my first option.

Last week, I powered up my layout, NCE PH-Pro, and I had an immediate short.  After some preliminary investigation, I was stumped.  I began to wonder if my command station or booster was acting up.  So I disconnected the bus wires and ran a pair of temporary bus wires from the command station and then added a pair of feeders from the bus wires to a 3 ft section of flex track on my work bench.  That proved that the command station/booster were fine, so I reconnected the main bus wires and went on from there to find the short on the layout.  You may want to do the same.  If there are doubts or concerns about your command station, do what I did.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 16, 2014 6:02 PM

Moses45

I know it doesnt make sense. But, there you have it. The old layout worked fine until I added more track. So I decided to try the old track. My command station sent me a "walkin o" which indicates a short. So, to break it down into smaller bites, I disconnected the new addition and that left only the old layout. I tried to to run a train on the old layout and got a walking o again. 

You are right about that.  It doesn't make sense.  And, it is too coincidental to suspect the command station.  If you did not add feeders when you connected the new section, then you did something wrong on the old section.

Let me ask you this.  When you connected the new to the old, you added those two turnouts.  But what did you disconnect on the old section in order to add those two turnouts?  Was there a curve at the bottom of that old section that you removed?

Rich

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Posted by Moses45 on Sunday, March 16, 2014 8:57 PM

I also disconnected  my command control and used alligator clips to connect to a   track section in the old layout, the disconnected new layout, an isolated programming track that I have used for some time. I also did it to 2 pieces of flex track that I assembled just for test puposes. A short came up in every case. I also switched different trains on these seperate tests. Got a short every time. The section that I removed was a 22 or 24 inch curved piece. I replaced both with atlas turnouts that looked just like a standard #6 , but had a curve that matched the missing section. It seems hard to believe that all of these track sections and all of my trains went bad at the same time. I tried all combos of tracks, connections and trains and got failure every time. The one thing they had in common was the Digitrax command.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 17, 2014 4:12 AM

There is just way too much going on here.

This thread started with a loco that wouldn't run, progressed to a short on the new section of your layout, morphed to a short on the older section of your layout, now suspicions about the status of your command station.

We gotta go back to basics here.

First and foremost, you need to satisfy yourself that your Digitrax DCS50 command station is operating correctly. From what you are reporting, it is not clear exactly what you are doing to test your command station.  You need to disconnect it entirely from the layout.  Disconnect the wiring that connects from your command station to your layout. Then, connect the two wires from your command station to a piece of flex track, not track on your layout, rather a separate single piece of flex track.  Then, turn on your command station and reset it to factory defaults.  To reset the DCS50, set OpSw39 to "c" (closed) to reset the unit.  Now, try to run a loco on that section of flex track.  If all works well, there is nothing wrong with your DCS50.  If it shorts, then you have a problem with the command station.

If there is no short, then the problem is on your layout.

With the new section disconnected entirely and no feeders from the new section connected to the main bus, is there still a short?  If there is an indication of short on the older section of your layout, you are going to have to find it and fix it.

In one of your replies on this thread, you said "after installing AR-1 reversers, I still had a short".  What bothers me is the word "still".  Do you mean that you had a short before installing the AR-1 reversers?

You also stated in one of your replies that "When I applied the quarter trick, which is an indication of a short somewhere...".  That is not quite right.  The "quarter trick" is used to purposely create a short, not to confirm the presence of a pre-existing short.  You place a quarter across boths rails to see if the DCS50 recognizes a short created by the quarter and shuts down to protect itself.  If the DCS50 does not recognize the short created by the quarter trick and does not shut down, you have a problem.  If it does shut down, it is working properly.

You go on to say "the trains won't move on the old layout, new layout, or the programming track".  Not sure what you mean about the programming track because locomotives are not supposed to move on the programming track.

As you know, the walking o's indicates a short on your layout.  With the new section completely disconnected and no feeders from the new section wired to your bus, if the walking o's persist, then the short is on the older section of your layout.

Read through this reply carefully, and go through the steps that I outline, and then let us know what you find out.

Rich

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Posted by Moses45 on Monday, March 17, 2014 5:48 AM

 I have already connected my command to a single piece of flex and reset to closed. The loco placed on it shorts the system. One of the frst things I did was disconnect the new track physically and removed feeders from the the bus. I get a short. You will recall that I added ar 1's because I had reverse loops and didnt realize it. This caused a short. After putting thr rversers in I still have a short. You are right, I misunderstood the quarter trick and my command center does respond correctly. Remember, I get these same results from 2 different locos in all of the scenarios you have suggested.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 17, 2014 5:53 AM

Moses45

 I have already connected my command to a single piece of flex and reset to closed. The loco placed on it shorts the system. 

Suppose you reset the command station and don't place the loco on that section of flex track.  What happens?

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, March 17, 2014 6:02 AM

Can you connect your command station to a single piece of flex track and test the voltage to track? If you have the proper voltage and then put the loco on that track and it shorts, guess what, its the loco.

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 17, 2014 6:05 AM

zstripe

Can you connect your command station to a single piece of flex track and test the voltage to track? If you have the proper voltage and then put the loco on that track and it shorts, guess what, its the loco.

Frank

 

That could be where we are headed or it could be the command station or it could be neither.

 

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Posted by Moses45 on Monday, March 17, 2014 2:07 PM

I conIf you can ring bell, blow whistle, etc. and turn lights on/off but loco does not run there is a 99+% chance the problem is in the decoder or the contacts between decoder and loco.

On 3/17/2014 11:48 AM, GARY F MARTIN wrote:tacted Digitrax support. I tested my loco on an isolated 3 ft section and it would not work. Here is their reply:
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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 17, 2014 2:13 PM

Moses45

I conIf you can ring bell, blow whistle, etc. and turn lights on/off but loco does not run there is a 99+% chance the problem is in the decoder or the contacts between decoder and loco.

On 3/17/2014 11:48 AM, GARY F MARTIN wrote:tacted Digitrax support. I tested my loco on an isolated 3 ft section and it would not work. Here is their reply:
 

This post came out somewhat garbled, but I think that the way it is supposed to read is as follows:

I contacted Digitrax support.

I tested my loco on an isolated 3 ft section and it would not work.

Here is their reply:

If you can ring bell, blow whistle, etc. and turn lights on/off but loco does not run there is a 99+% chance the problem is in the decoder or the contacts between decoder and loco.

*********************************************************************
 
Did you tell Digitrax about the command station indicating shorts?
 
We seem to moving in the wrong direction here.
 
We need to establish whether or not the command station is working properly.
 
Rich

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Posted by Moses45 on Monday, March 17, 2014 3:21 PM

His implication is that the command station is not the problem. I put the loco back on my layout and although it would not move, it did not short out the track. Took another older Bachmann and it ran in jerks if I pushed it along. It showed a short when it ran off the track. I suspect dirty tracks or wheels. At any rate I am getting rid of the command station and updating to a dt402d throttle , ur92 transceiver  and dcs 100 command station. I really think the DCS 50 is ok, but I am upgrading. I already own the first two components and was going to use them with the old DCS50 command station. I am going to clean the original layout, check for bad wiring and when I get it running, I will reconnect the new section and see what happens. Like they say, If you have an elephant to eat, you just have to take a bite at a time. Meanwhile I will check decoder connections on the one that wont move..

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 17, 2014 4:49 PM

Replacing the DCS50 with the DCS100 makes sense for a couple of reasons.  One, the DCS00 has twice the amps (5.0) as the DCS50 (2.5 amps).  Two, Digitrax discontinued the DCS50 back in 2010, so it undoubtedly provides a higher level of support for the DCS100.

Once you get the DCS100, check it out with just one section of track to confirm its reliability.

Then, connect only your old layout to it and verify that it is short-free.

Finally connect the new section of the layout to the older section and test it thoroughly with the AR-1 in place.

Let us know the results and then check that balky loco.

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 17, 2014 7:40 PM

 How many trains do you intend to run? The DCS50 can run 12 simultaneous, assuming you have enough power - so the way I went might be more economical, mainly, buying a DB150 but isning the DCS50 as the command station. That will give you the same 5 amps to the rails, plus the 2.5 amps from the DCS50 as a seperate power district or, what I did, as power for your stationary decoders. Still get the seperate program track with readback - and the Zephyr tends to have less trouble with sound decoders than the older DCS100.

 If the trains don;t run now, and you get short indications, switching command stations won;t fix it. Is this Bachmann loco decoder equipped or are you just trying it on address 00? bachmann locos and their choke coila dn capacitor RF filters cause nothing but problems - I have a 44 tonner that absolutely would not operate on address 00 - it shorted my system as soon as power was applied. With a decoder, it's fine. No other loco i ever tried with address 00 ever gave a problem, they all ran, some slower and noisier than others, but they all ran. Only this Bachmann would not run.

                           --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Iansa on Monday, March 17, 2014 8:10 PM

I know very little about Digitrax systems but it sounds to me like the command station is full of address's.

Do a factory reset on command station then as has been suggested connect to a separate piece of track, NOT THE LAYOUT and test.

Cheers

Ian

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 7:06 AM

 If it were full of addresses, the display would read FULL on the Zephyr when selecting a new address. Or if using the DT402, it would say slot=max. But a reset is always a good idea when wierd things happen.

               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 7:24 AM

I had suggested a reset earlier in this thread, and the OP said that he did that, apparently with no effect.

Obviously, a big part of the continuing problem here is that there are two conflicting issues - - - a loco that either won't move or is shorting the layout and a command station whose operation has been called into question by the OP.

While the issue of the command station operational status remains unresolved, I see where the OP has started a new thread looking for help in finding a repair facility for that balky BLI loco.  But, at this point, who knows if there is anything wrong with that loco.

I think that prudence dictates that you resolve the command station issue and the shorting problem on the layout before sending away the BLI loco for repairs but, hey, what do I know?

Rich

Alton Junction

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