Is it possible to run analog DC lovomotives on a DCC layout? And if so, how is this accomplished? How do you control the speed of the locomotive?
Very easy. Use a DCC controller that has the stretched zero bit option. There are three or four systems that do it. I use to have one some years ago. It can be hard on the motor. The motor armature vibrates at the DCC frequency and even does this when the loco is sitting still unless you switch off the power to the rail. Some have a siding to do this.
Technical info in the below link.
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/DCC-waveforms/DCC_waveforms.html
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
DC and DCC systems were not designed to be interchangeble. Well, of course, DC was in existence long before DCC came along, so maybe it would be more accurate to say that DCC was not designed to be interchangeable with DC.
So, why try to run DC locomotives on a DCC system. You do so at risk to the DC motors and probably to the DCC system.
The most common concern is among those DC modelers who desire to convert to DCC, but have to many DC locos to do so immediately. To them, I say, run those DC locos on a separate layout until converted to DCC.
Alton Junction
Yes it is possible to run DC loco's on DCC using the address of 0. Not all DCC systems allow you to do it. If you do run the loco's on DCC you cannot leave them idle with the track power on. You should run them then remove them. The sound the motor makes is called singing and will cause the motor to get very warm and the loco may creep (move)along the track on its own. I once left and forgot about an n gauge non- decoder loco on a powered track for over an hour. Not only did it creep into an engine house so I couldn't see it but the motor got so warm something in it bound up so it would not move. It was OK after it cooled down.
My short answer to Rich's question was "Because I didn't know any better."
I have a Lenz DCC system, which does allow running a DC engine while also running DCC engines. I had a few DC engines when I switched over to DCC, and I thought I might do this on occasion. The thing I learned was:
I really wanted to put decoders in all my DC engines so I could run them properly.
When you try to do this, you will notice a few things. First, the DC engine buzzes annoyingly, all the time. This can't be good for it, and others have occasionally reported burned-out motors as a result. When you use this option, you are not "running the engine," as we do in true DCC, but instead you are back to "running the track," more like DC. In DCC, Forward and Reverse are just that, and they correspond to the front and back of the locomotive. Running a DC engine puts you back to Clockwise and Counter-clockwise, if you have a loop layout, or Left and Right if you're running point-to-point. You can run multiple DC engines, but they will all go roughly the same speed, and will all go in the same direction, regardless of which way they're facing. That speed, incidentally, seems to me to be much lower than the engine is capable of.
DCC has the ability to control a reverse loop automatically, without any particular operator intervention. This feature will not work with DC engines. They will either ping-pong back and forth, or short completely. Neither is a desireable outcome.
I really only see one use for this - to test a DC engine before you install a decoder.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
It is possible ro tun DC engines on DCC with a Digitrax throttle. You set the loco number to zero, zero. I have run Bowser locomotives with open frame motors for hours w/o any apparent harm. Athearn diesels also run well in this mode. All my brass Westside steamers buck in this mode. You should never hold your motionless DC loco on a DCC track w/0 cutting power and corless motors (I don't think any locos come with corless motors) will burn up very quickly on DCC in the zero, zero mode. The motors will run hotter than normal in the so-called stretch zero mode but I think the risk is very slight that performance will degrade over any reasonable period of time. Anyway, motors are cheaper than decoders.
Redvdub1 Anyway, motors are cheaper than decoders.
Anyway, motors are cheaper than decoders.
Some engines make some loud and evil sounding noises on zero stretching. I would not recommend using it other than a really short test.
Lee
The motor armature vibrates at the DCC frequency that is provided by the controller. That signal is always there unless a rail feeder is switched off. I found I only had to turn off one rail.
The point where the two motor bushed contact the commutator segments gets real hot when the armature is not turning. A few years ago I monitored the motor with an infra red temperature scanner and those two points get hotter when the armature was not turning.
Some motors are noiser than others.
When I let the motor run for a few minutes and did a scan, the temp was lower but as I continued to monitor when the armature stopped, I could see the temp increasing.
richg1998The point where the two motor bushed contact the commutator segments gets real hot when the armature is not turning. A few years ago I monitored the motor with an infra red temperature scanner and those two points get hotter when the armature was not turning.
Even though it was getting hot, I still think what you did was really cool. You rock. Thanks for stepping up and providing real data.
MisterBeasley richg1998 The point where the two motor bushed contact the commutator segments gets real hot when the armature is not turning. A few years ago I monitored the motor with an infra red temperature scanner and those two points get hotter when the armature was not turning. Even though it was getting hot, I still think what you did was really cool. You rock. Thanks for stepping up and providing real data.
richg1998 The point where the two motor bushed contact the commutator segments gets real hot when the armature is not turning. A few years ago I monitored the motor with an infra red temperature scanner and those two points get hotter when the armature was not turning.
Thanks. comes from many years of electronic and mechanical experience. I picked up an infra red temp scanner off of ebay a few years ago for about $40.00. I used them a lot in industry. Easy tp check calibration.
If you know how to shop, quite a lot of useful test equipment for electronics, model railroading, etc, can be bought from the North Pole. Aka. China. Thats were Santa has set up shop.
The question of the armature vibrating nagged me a lot. I heard assumptions from many and decided to do some real world testing. I don't remember the readings as I was watching for a trend. I could see the temp spot even in a can motor.