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Programming decoders

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Programming decoders
Posted by Georgia Flash on Friday, November 1, 2013 9:36 AM

Am back again with "newby" questions re dcc programming. I think I finally get it!  Operating DC AND DCC with DCC is a "no-no". It's either all DC or all DCC; the two together are not happy. So, I am getting ready to spend $$$ for mobile decoders. I want to install decoders in pairs of speed-matched/compatible diesel "lash-ups".  I am using the Digitrax  Super Empire Builder... system.

A couple of questions: 1.) For one pair of locos, should BOTH installed decoders be programmed with the same 4-digit address??  2.) Is it obvious that the direction button changes the polarity irregardless of which way the locos face, i.e., two F-units (AA), back-to-back?  3.) Once decoders are programmed with, say, Digitrax, will I be able to operate with a different DCC system in the future?

And, finally, are there recommendations for  DCC for Dummies  -or- DCC 101  type books that I should purchase; that answer questions for the DCC "newby"?

Thanks

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 1, 2013 9:46 AM

GF,

1.) You program program both decoders with the same address or use different addresses and assign them to the same consist.  Your preference.  I use different addresses and assign them to the same consist.

2.) The direction button controls the rotation of the motor, not a change in polarity on the rails.

3.) Yep, once programmed, you can operate the loco(s) on different DCC systems.

4.)  There are several good books out there on DCC.  Take your pick. 

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 1, 2013 9:54 AM

GF,

I think that this web site has a lot of good basic DCC info for beginners.

http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 1, 2013 9:59 AM

And this info is specific to decoders for DCC.

http://tonystrains.com/download/dec-installation-hout.pdf

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by locoi1sa on Friday, November 1, 2013 1:33 PM

You ask for DCC for dummies so I give you DCC for dummies. http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn2/DCC.htm

Georgia Flash
A couple of questions: 1.) For one pair of locos, should BOTH installed decoders be programmed with the same 4-digit address??

   I do this for lashups that do not get broken down. Pairs of ALCO S1 switchers running on transfer duty or a lashup of 5 ALCO RS3 on coal hauling. Easy peasy with no consisting needed and only the end units have lights.

Georgia Flash
2.) Is it obvious that the direction button changes the polarity irregardless of which way the locos face, i.e., two F-units (AA), back-to-back? 

      CV29 controls normal operating direction. Just adding 1 to CV29s value will have the rear as front.

Georgia Flash
3.) Once decoders are programmed with, say, Digitrax, will I be able to operate with a different DCC system in the future?

     Any system should be able to run any decodered locomotive. If you take it to someones place that is still DC you will have to enable DC running in CV29. Only some decoders are able to run on DC and some are better than others. Some just sit and smoke then never work again.

          Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, November 1, 2013 1:48 PM

Georgia Flash
A couple of questions: 1.) For one pair of locos, should BOTH installed decoders be programmed with the same 4-digit address??

I also only do this if the locomotives will ALWAYS be used together.  I have several ABA and even ABBA sets that all decoders carry the same address.  Other sets that I want to run as an ABBA set or as two, AB AB, sets get 2 different addresses. In that case to run them together as the full ABBA I use "consisting" to tie them together electronically.

2.) Is it obvious that the direction button changes the polarity irregardless of which way the locos face, i.e., two F-units (AA), back-to-back?

Well, the direction button changes the polarity coming from the decoder to the motor.  The unit running backwards has to be told (programmed) so that it's initial polarity is set for running backwards.  That way a direction button change would change it to be forward.

I don't know about the Empire Builder set you mentioned, but some DCC systems just have a button (option) during programming that says something like "locomotive direction" or "change loco direction" and you choose forward or reverse.   As the prior poster noted all this does under the covers is set CV29 to an appropriate value.

3.) Once decoders are programmed with, say, Digitrax, will I be able to operate with a different DCC system in the future?

The decoders yes.  This is the purpose of a standard.   I use several DCC systems and program the locos on any for any of the others with impunity.  For years I programed on a Digitrax Zephyr at home and took the locos to run on the clubs Lenz system,  or the museum's NCE. 

However putting them into consists is a different story.  I don't even trust consists between systems of the same brand.  That is, if I am going to a friends house, I break the consist of the units at home and then re-consist them on his system.   I think this is more an issue of the system retaining memory of past consists or the possibility of a conflict between my consist number 9100 and the consist number 9100 that my friend has or worse had 2 years ago and forgot about.  After a few bad experiences I just adopted this as a general practice so it doesn't have the potential to become an issue.  (I am just using 9100 as an example random number.  There is nothing special about 9100).

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Posted by ba&prr on Friday, November 1, 2013 2:02 PM

Since you are using the Empire Builder, you may want to get a PR3 and load JMRI in your computer to use for programming as the Empire Builder does not read CV values. I have the Empire Builder at home and like the fact I can program any decoder with it. I have sound decoders and use speed tables, hence I have the PR3 and Decoder Pro. Model Railroader has several DCC books out. Also check out mrddu.com  Joe

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Posted by twcenterprises on Friday, November 1, 2013 11:47 PM

Georgia Flash
A couple of questions: 1.) For one pair of locos, should BOTH installed decoders be programmed with the same 4-digit address??  2.) Is it obvious that the direction button changes the polarity irregardless of which way the locos face, i.e., two F-units (AA), back-to-back?  3.) Once decoders are programmed with, say, Digitrax, will I be able to operate with a different DCC system in the future?

1.  As others have said, you may safely program a pair of locos with the same address.  I personally would only do this with locos that are drawbar connected, as I intend to model hostler operations (such as moving light engines around a shop), and will need my F "B" units independently powered and programmed.

2.  Yes.  And to clarify, it does *NOT* change the polarity on the rails (which is much closer to AC than DC anyway), but instead it sends a command to the loco(s) "travel in this direction".  Now, let's say you install 2 decoders in 2 "A" units, wiring them identically (and assuming they are wired correctly).  If you assign both to a throttle and turn up the speed, they will *BOTH* attempt to travel "forward"; if you have them back-to-back, they will have a tug-of-war.  You have a couple options.  You can set a CV in one (as others have explained), telling that particular decoder "run in the opposite direction".  Also, some systems will allow you to assign a direction to each loco in a "consist" (this only works if you are using separate addresses).  That is to say, you can set up a consist for loco 1 to travel "forward", locos 2 and 3 to travel "backward".  If you are using the same address for two locos that will run back-to-back, you will need to program one to run in reverse using the CV's.

3.  As others have said, yes.  Any DCC decoder should operated with any brand of DCC system.

Brad

EMD - Every Model Different

ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil

CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts

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Posted by cacole on Sunday, November 3, 2013 7:14 AM

Since you're just starting out, you might want to consider purchasing decodes in bulk to save money.  Empire Northern Models in Webster, New York, has the NCE D13SR decoders in 10 packs for around $13 each.  This is a Silent Running decoder with 4 light functions.  I have installed 40 or so if these decoders and have never had a bad one.

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