I recently converted a P2K Alco S-3 to DCC. It runs very well except when it crosses the frog on Atlas #6 turnout at slow speed. It will then hesitate for a moment and sometimes stop if the speed is really slow. It will do that on both trucks even if rails and wheels are clean. As one of the yard has many of those turnouts in a row, It could be annoying as it will hesitate or stop twice on each turnout.
As the problem occurs on both trucks I don't think this is pick up problem. Could it be related to the fact that this loco is short based and that the gap at the frog is longer than on a #4 turnout on which I have no problem. If so, is there any easy cure?
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
Guy,
You need to power the frog..Short wheel base engines with 4 axle pick-up,at slow speeds are more susceptible to power breaks,more so on DCC..I use Atlas relays,for I use Atlas machines..There are other ways,,Torti's, you didn't mention what you are using,to throw the points..
Cheer,
Frank
While in the end it will be best to power the frogs, also make sure you have power feeding in on all legs of the turnout (for Atlas this is perfectly ok. Live frog turnouts like Peco Electrofrog need gaps on the frog rails). My previous layout was all Atlas #6's and I didn't power any frogs. Everything I had could run at a nice slow speed everywhere - including my Proto 2000 S1's, essentially the same as the S3. I don;lt solder the rails on my turnouts in case I would ever have to repalce one, but on all 3 legs I have power feeds. If the loco is working properly, it has 8 wheel pickup, so while the truck wheelbase may be shorter than the frog and therefore that truck is cut off, the other truck should be on powered rail and the loco should keep moving.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Frank,
Actualy I throw the points manually.
Randy,
i agree with you, it should go as you say. But it doesn't. Do you suggest that I should look at the pickup wires?
Well, on plain straigh track, where it runs fine, put a piece of paper under one truck, see if it runs. Repeat for other truck. If it does, then the pickups and wiring are fine in the loco and the issue is getting power to the portion of the turnout that the second truck is on when the first is on the frog and the loco stalls.
The point rails are a common failure point, they get power through the riveted joint where the pivot against the closure rails. If you've painted the track, or gotten glue mix in there when ballasting, it can insulate the points from the rest. And the closure rails themselves get power from essnetially a press fit metal plate under the closure rail adn the adjacent stock rail - but they ALSO have jumpers under the frog to the corresponding frog rail - that's why I added additional power feeds at the frog end, so there was direct power feed into the closure rails. The point rail problem can be fixed with tiny jumpers of flexible wire between the closure raila nd the point, across the gap. Additional jumpers from the stock rail to the closure rail can help, but essentially the same purpose is served by the additional feeders at the frog end.
In any event,whether it be pick-up problem's or not..He said it does it on all his turnouts,in his yard area..
And if you are using Caboose Ground Throws,,they have one,with switch points to power the frog,,if you so desire..
I drive my newer turnouts with Tortoises. I was having the same problem. My turnouts are Walthers-Shinohara. When I powered the frogs through the Tortoise machines, those problems went away.
Another option is the Frog Juicer from Tam Valley. It is a DCC-only, according to the web site.
http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/hexfrogjuicer.html
This particular unit will control up to 6 frogs. They also make a single-frog unit. It is essentially a mini auto-reverse unit which powers the frog and flips the polarity when it senses the need to do so.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
rrinker While in the end it will be best to power the frogs, also make sure you have power feeding in on all legs of the turnout (for Atlas this is perfectly ok. Live frog turnouts like Peco Electrofrog need gaps on the frog rails). My previous layout was all Atlas #6's and I didn't power any frogs. Everything I had could run at a nice slow speed everywhere - including my Proto 2000 S1's, essentially the same as the S3. I don;lt solder the rails on my turnouts in case I would ever have to repalce one, but on all 3 legs I have power feeds. If the loco is working properly, it has 8 wheel pickup, so while the truck wheelbase may be shorter than the frog and therefore that truck is cut off, the other truck should be on powered rail and the loco should keep moving. --Randy
I agree with Randy on this. The pickups are the last thing that I would suspect. And I have never had an Atlas turnout out of gauge, nor any of my Proto 2000 S-1s or S-3s.
I have two Proto 2000 S-1s and two Proto 2000 S-3s, and most of my turnouts are Atlas Custom Line #6s. These locos used to stall at slow speeds on the frogs until I placed feeders on the ends of every turnout rail. I do not power my frogs. Also, those turnouts need to have super clean rails for those short wheelbase locos to perform properly without stalling.
I have not really had any problems with the point rails making contact on the Atlas turnouts. Where I do have problems with point rails is on Walthers Shinohara turnouts, especially the double crossovers.
Rich
Alton Junction
Ah, the joys of powered frogs. I just got through powering all of mine (#4 & #6 Atlas) with the Frog Juicers. I sat there last night and watched my Genesis MP15 and Athearn SW1500 just crawling around the yard ladder on speed step 1, FINALLY with not one bit of stopping or hesitation. It was actually enjoyable to build a train.
I agree with davidmbedard, check the gauge of the wheels. I think the p2k switchers have too much slack between the axles and copper pick up strips, and any extra width of the atlas turnouts and narrowness of the p2k wheels will cause problems.
Also, my p2k switchers had some problems on atlas #6 switches until I did the following:
I mixed graphite coupler lubricant with labelle grease to make a conductive paste. Then after cleaning the holes in the copper strips that the axles slide into, I put the grayish paste into the holes like spackle.
Now the switchers run great over the frogs.
- Douglas
Doughless,
I did check the gauge of the wheels as recommended dy David and you but it seems to be OK with NMRA standards. In the past I observed that there was a slack somewhere when I pushed the loco from side to side when on the tracks. I didn't know what it was but it was certainly different than with others loco I own. As the gauge of the wheels are right, you might be right. I never went so far as disassembling a locomotive but I will give it a try to see if I can do as you did. But it will take some time though. I will keep everyone informed
Thank you.