I've recently joined a club and of course, DCC is the standard. Being pretty adept at computers I pulled out my DCC Ready Proto 2000 GP9 and began researching for DCC chips. In many cases I read the acronym PnP which to me has always stood for plug and play. I ordered the sound card, speaker and enclosure that best represented the EMD diesel engine in the GP9 having done my research through the Vermont RR historical society for that particular road number. When the package arrived it was easy to see as well as read that this wasn't the plug and play that I was accustom to as the directions clearly stated solder the wires, etc.
I'm wondering a) why manufacturers would consider having to solder wires to a board as PnP and b) has there been any pushback from the NMRA on manufacturers that make these 'false' claims.
Sound - that's NEVER PnP, unless you buy the non-sound version of a loco that is also sold with sound, and later purchase the very same decoder that would come in the sound unit. Not too many locos have speaker space right from the factory - in many cases even if the loco IS available with factory sound, the non-sound version doesn't have the speaker space. Atlas is a notable exception. Silver Series versions of Gold Series locos generally have the speaker A frames in place, ready to accept a speaker.
Few if any P2K locos have EVER been "plug and play" - they use incandescent bulbs which, in most cases, will require resistors when installing a decoder. Or replacement with LEDs. Some of them do have true PnP decoders - not sound, but motor only - just unplug the factory light board, and plug in the decoder, which comes with the resistors already in place.
DCC Ready is the term you will see the most. THat can mean anything from just plug in the decoder to rewire the lights and solder wires. There is no defined meaning. You'd think with repeated rants on many different public forums, this would change, but the big magazines never take any manufacturer to task over this, and so nothing every changes. There are even some locos who are miswired, yet say DCC Ready - sure there's a place to just plug the decoder in, and it will run - but if the loco derails and happens to skew one of the trucks, the decoder will be fried if a wheel contacts the rail and frame at the same time.
Again, sound is a completely different animal. Even if a given loco has the speaker cavity all ready, if you use a different brand decoder from the intended one, it may have a different size speaker, requiring cutting and soldering the speaker wires - and many sound decoders don;t even come with a speaker already soldered on, they always need wires soldered, at least for the speaker.
Who claimed PnP sound for the Proto GP9? Please tell me you didn't get an MRC sound decoder... The only PnP sound for a P2K GP9 you'd get would be to buy one of the sound ones in a road name you didn't want, and swap shells.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The original posters are correct, when a high end sound decoder enters the picture, the NMRA plug is no longer of any value.
For that reason the NMRA and NEM are moving toward the PluX interface for locomotives and decoders. It would allow a plug and play sound decoder. You could even swap one sound decoder for a another sound decoder, or just a simple motor/light decoder, and be running in minutes.
The term "DCC Ready" has never carried much weight. When I started in DCC about 8 years ago, it was often applied to any DC locomotive. I had one supposedly DCC Ready engine where I had to isolate the motor. The term is very misleading.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I'm glad to know that my interpretation of PnP wasn't off base. Fully understand that with sound you might not be able to have a complete PnP since a speaker could be mounted anywhere you may have room. However, when you have a DCC Ready loco with instructions to remove the old card, flip the 'adapter' over and plug in the new card that should be PnP. I would also think speakers, etc should come with ready made ends that would simple be attached (not soldered) to the new board. If anyone has a computer you know what I'm talking about.
I gave the loco to one of our club members who really knows his stuff when it comes to repairs, DCC, etc. and the P2 did have cracked gears and a short in one of the motor pickups. Suspect he might find this as he goes through my other 7 P2s.
I don't want to name the company or provide an image of the pkg since it could cause a tidal wave of comments. :)
As long as there is no requirements regarding the term "DCC Ready", it can mean almost anything.
Just like the "Digital Ready" tags you would see on analog devices such as headphones and loudspeakers. Did they work any better than the analog only speakers? Did they have a digital input?
Problem with just having the speaker plug in and not need to be soldered is the same issue as finding a place for the speaker - you may or may not be able to snake 2 wires in a cable and even a small 2 pin connector through the chassis, but you may have an easier time snaking 2 individual wires, like motor wires and track pickups - if you look on many locos they come up on opposite sides of the main frame.
Plus if speakers had plugs, then they'd only work on decoders that had the same plug. Tacking on a couple of wires isn't a big deal. There ARE decoders that come with the speaker already attached, for very specific loco installations.
Even on locos that really are plug in ready, I almost always remove factory circuit boards and hard wire the decoder. This avoids any potential issues with the circuit board not being truly DCC Ready, and hard wired decoders are usually a few dolalrs cheaper than specific circuit board types.
"DCC ready" means that the motor brushes can be easily isolated from the track pick ups. Any more than that is a bonus from the manufacturer. Many plug and play decoders are intended to fit several different engines with similar mechanism design. To make a special decoder for each and every frame version would run the decoder cost up.
Why does the NMRA not say anything about manufacturer's claims? Because DCC ready and plug and play are not part of the NMRA's reccomendations.
Martin Myers
In this discussion there are two groups that are working opposite of each other in the setting of DCC compatibility. Loco mfgs that build their units to be DCC ready and card mfgs that use the term PnP. Based on NMRA standards there are certain functions that control the operation and any DCC loco should be able to operate on any DCC layout without issue. Card mfgs program their product to adhere to these standards. End of discussion. However, when they claim that the board is PnP they fudge the true ability for a user to simply take out the old and put in the new. The NMRA should be able to put pressure on all parties (don't they license the term) to state the real DCC Ready / PnP capabilities of their products.
Don't mean to take exception with your comments, "Many plug and play decoders are intended to fit several different engines with similar mechanism design.", but to the best of my knowledge the NMRA standard is an 8 pin connection so no matter which board / loco you are combining the board should have an 8 pin connector as well.
I'm also not talking about the NMRA making a recommendation, but getting board manufacturers to agree, as they did with the DCC standard that if you state the 'card' is PnP then the installation is a simple remove the old card and plug in the new card. No soldering involved.
Basically all the board mfgs are doing, I suspect, is programming the card to adhere to the DCC commands in which case the card is DCC ready or compatible, but not PnP.
My only comment on the "DCC ready" means that the motor brushes can be easily isolated from the track pick ups is that I believe the loco mfgs go a bit beyond just isolating the motor. All of the units I have seen and I'll admit this is somewhat limited, have boards that can be removed and the new board can be plugged in (albeit as long as they have the 8 pin connector).
Put aside the sound card discussion for a moment as there are too many variables.
The real issue with DCC Ready is that the term doesn't mean anything. Just like the "HQ" logo on a VHS machine didn't really tell you anything, just that it had some changes compared to one that didn't have the logo.
The DCC Standards only define what the signal looks like, and certain required CVs. How the maker implements that in a decoder or a command station is completely up to them.
There is no definition as to what a DCC Ready locomotive is. Might have a plug, might have a PCB you need to cut a few traces on to disconnect the motor from the track power. May just mean that the motor doesn't have one brush connected directly to the frame. There is no requirements, so, they can make the claim without any explanation as to what they mean.
Some definitions of locomotive packaging.
DCC ready = Can have DCC with effort. Any loco can be DCC ready even old brass open frame jobs and split frame diesels too.
PnP = Plug and Pray. You pray the motor is truly isolated from the frame.
DCC on board. = Cheapest decoder ever made is inside good luck getting it to run decent.
Quick plug equipped. = Rip out all the wiring and start over.
Tell me I'm not right.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!