is the motor only decoder that is made by the same company that makes your sound decoder a important issue to you or just sales hype ?
I have been trying the Lil MC motor only decoder by sountraxx to run ab units, one sound & one not , thinking there well be no adjustments in like units .
but I just ordered a 4 pack of nce product and am wondering how others see it , or is it even important to you the brand matching ?
I'm thinking the Lil MC units run a tad hot with there 1 amp rate and the nce 1.3 amp may be just as good paired to a soundtraxx tsunami . and since I found, even two like units dont run exactly the same, adjustments are somtimes needed any how .
just curious on this issue....Jerry
Jerry,
Most 'motor' only decoders will start at a lower voltage(no sound electronics to power) than a sound decoder. You need to adjust the starting voltage(CV2) on all of you decoders so that the engines will start on the first speed step of you DCC throttle. I then set the Vmax(CV5) on my engines so that they run at the same top speed as my slowest diesel. Some decoders do no support Vmax, an you will need to use the speed tables to slow down thost faster engines. I have a 'mix' of sound and non-sound decoders and can run all of my diesels in MU with no problems
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
The Soundtraxx sound decoders do not support Vmid and Vmax, CVs 5 and 6. You might wish to check if their non-sound decoders do support those CVs.
If they don't, and you're not a fan of using speed tables, you might want to consider some other brand decoders that do support those CVs. You'll have a better chance of speed matching if that becomes necessary.
And yes, in my opinion it is sales hype.
Jerry
I have been running sound and non sound locos together for years. The key is to adjust the non sound loco to the sound loco. For instance I have a set of SD9 with one Loksound 3.5 decoder and one with a TCS T1. The Loksound has a long wind up before it starts moving. I have the TCS decoder to just about move when the Loksound starts moving. Adding tons of momentum helps match them too. I don't have time to fool with speed tables and use the standard 5 CVs for speed matching. It helps if the decoder supports the CV5&6.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Since the NCE units don;t have BEMF is might take some work to match with a Tsunami equipped loco. I have a Steart FT set, and put my go-to TCS T1 in the non-sound one and they run pretty good together with no adjustments needed. The NCE decoders are really good, especially for the price, can't beat them. Priot to TCS, I used the NCE D13SRJ, you can get those for about $12 each, and they are GOOD decoders, not something cheap and lacking like the Bachmann ones.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I've had good luck in my limited forays into sound and non-sound locos with the NCE decoders once I figured out what was mentioned about making the non-sound decoder match the sound units. Had a heck of a time before that though...
I've got a pair of Atlas Sound Monon C420s and like to splice a P1K RS2 in between like the Monon did. I think it was a DA-SR I put in the little Alco, NCE in any case.
All I know is that it's way easier to politely ask the NCE decoder to do something than to beg the QSI decoder gods to do the same thing.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
well as mentioned ,they do NOT match with out CV-adjustments. I got three Stewart ft chassis one with factory tsunami , one with the sountraxx motor only MC-xxx , and NOW one with factory locksound select (just got delivered ,was suppose to be a tsunami but ad was wrong).
motor only MC-xxx in chassis takes right off fastest ,then the factory tsunami , and the slowest is the factory locksound select (also the smoothest ,my first locksound ,VERY impressed).
also got a 4 pack of d13sr and thinken of installing one in a ft chassie for a comparison .
BUT as mentioned going to take some adjusting to get them all to run together ,and sountraxx's statement is a TAD misleading ...Jerry
You will never get the Soundtraxx to match the Loksound. What I've had to do is match the Loksound to the Soundtraxx - in other words, de-tune the Loksound to match.
I have a parallel mainline down one wall that is 24 feet long and is perfect for speed matching engines. Even when I got all the individual speed steps of the Loksound to match the Soundtraxx, the Soundtraxx still had a slight lurch as it advanced between steps in comparison to the Loksound.
Speed step 1, they ran perfect side by side, advance to speed step 2 and the Soundtraxx would lurch ahesd by about half an inch and then would again run perfectly side by side. Each speed step increase, the Soundtraxx would lurch ahead another half an inch.
Soundtraxx decoder immediately jump from step to step, where-as the Loksound decoders smooth out the change in steps .... just one of their attributes to the best motor control out there.
As for speed matching any decoders, you need to determine what is your "golden" engine - the one you want everything to run like. You then need to modify your Start Voltage, Momentum, Mid Speed, High Speed, or even individual speed steps of your other engines to match your base golden engine.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
1. In my experience, no two engines - even if it's the same model, same manufacturer - are going to run exactly the same right out of the box. Even if you install identical decoders in both, you usually need to slightly adjust the speed of one to match the other.
2. I like to speed match engines to be as close as possible to running exactly the same - but really, if it's just 'real close', that usually works fine. The old rule of thumb is if it's within 90% of both running the same speed, they should run together OK.
wjstix1. In my experience, no two engines - even if it's the same model, same manufacturer - are going to run exactly the same right out of the box. Even if you install identical decoders in both, you usually need to slightly adjust the speed of one to match the other.
x2
I don't think Soundtraxx is misleading anyone. The decoders probably do perform the same electrically. It's just that no two loco perform mechanically the same, even if they appear identical. Putting in matched decoders may still require some speed matching.
Another tip to use in speedmatching is the forward/reverse trim. I was just setting up a couple of Bachmann GE 70-tonners converted to HOn3 (with the help of the NWSL kit and the Hauff Bros article in RMC). They run the same speed in one direction, but required a slight bump to the trim on one to run together in the other. Always check whether you need to adjust in either direction. Sometimes one is good and needs no adjustments.
thanks Guys : I have soldered a 8 pin plug on one of the nce d13 sr 's and compared it to the others ,noted it starts later than the rest (in default ) but is close to the ft w/locksound once running .
SOOOO, now I have talked to MB Klein about the mix up and they have no problem taking back the ft- chassis w/locksound But they dont have the ft -a black w/ tsunami in stock. so should I keep the locksound and try to match it to the tsunami or send it back ? (I really like th idea of two different sound systems in one lash up, from a sound aspect anyway)
what I'm trying to do is make a abba set of ft units in NP black made with 2 ab sets of (DRAW-BARED TOGETHER) 1 SOUND-A & 1 NON/sound-B
and I really like the stock light package in the Stewart FT A ,green/red class LEDs, but the A unit chassis with the sound boards didn't come with em I'm wondering if anyone has put the stock packages on the sound chassies ? Jerry
WHich FT with Loksound chassis do you have? I will gladly swap you my Tsunami one. I much prefer Loksound decoders. My Tsunanai FT is a B unit with black sideframes. I think it's plugged in to the 8 pin socket, so a simple decoder swap could work too.
They should all run together, with BEMF on. That;'s why the soudn one starts before the NCE one, the NCE decoders don;t have BEMF. But they have good motor control and should run close once moving. I paired the Tsunami with a TCS (which ahs BEMF) and they run together - not much choice though since they are drawbar connected. But they don;t fight one another. Loksound has some great BEMF and motor control, it shoudl be able to match a Tsunami - the trick there would eb gettign the Tsunami tweaked to work with the Loksound.