Read a lot of posts on the form and it appears that DCC is the best way to go. However, I need to have the following better clarified:
What I have read so far makes me ASSUME that if one has an MTH DCS system (TIU with remote, etc) then one can NOT run any other brand of engines?
If one has some older open frame brass engines that operate in analog, will the MTH system operate these engines in analog?
And if that same individual has some of the newer DCC ready engines,(no decoders installed) both with and without sound, say like Proto2000, Broadway Ltd, Atlas, Athearn, etc, will these run with the MTH system and the ones with sound, will the sound features work? Installing a DCC decoder, as I can tell from the posts, will not be of any benefit?
Thanks
Ray
The MTH DCS is a proprietrary system that is not based on the NMRA DCC Standards and Recommended Practices, so you're generally stuck with MTH locomotives to achieve full control of all available sounds.
Whether DCS can run a non-decoder equipped locomotive I have no idea because I have never used their system.
Newer MTH locomotives claim to be "DCC compatible" but two members of our local club who recently purchased some models with the MTH DCS system installed have not had much success figuring out how to run them on our DCC layout.
I think DCS has a pass-thry where you cna connect a DC power pack or a DCC system. The AC version lets you connect a regular AC variable transformer to control locos that don;t have DCS.
However, if the mahority of your locos will be normal ones with regular DCC decoders, the MTH ones will run on DCC. The current version of their firmware supports all the stuff you need to work.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Neither DCS nor DCC is recommended for open frame motors in analog mode. You'll more then likely burn them up.
I don't know what the deal is with DCS and analog, but with DCC, you can only move 1 analog locomotive at a time. So if you have five analog locomotives on the track, and you turn up the analog throttle, then all those analog locomotives will move to that throttle (unless you use circuit blocking)
And if I remember correctly, to run DCC with DCS, you have to get a DCC system and a DCS system and run the DCC as a pass through mode on the DCS system.
All the above solutions would not be considered seriously by a dedicated modeler. If you want sound and you want control and want to keep you DC locomotives DC. then you'll have to buy something like BLI's DC Master or something similar. But they only support certain decoders. MRC's tech 6 will do the job (http://www.modelrectifier.com/search/product-view.asp?ID=8267) But it's pricey.
I have no hard numbers but in HO, about 99% of the locos on the market that run DCC or DCS will un DCC only. DCS is a niche market in HO and has prominence in O scale.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
DigitalGriffinI don't know what the deal is with DCS and analog, but with DCC, you can only move 1 analog locomotive at a time.
This is not entirely correct. Not all DCC systems will support running an analog loco.
Hi Ray
tczephyr Read a lot of posts on the form and it appears that DCC is the best way to go. However, I need to have the following better clarified: What I have read so far makes me ASSUME that if one has an MTH DCS system (TIU with remote, etc) then one can NOT run any other brand of engines?
Partly correct. You cannot run any DCC equipped engines in DCC command mode. You can run them in analog mode with DC.
Yes. MTH has two ways of supporting analog DC. One is with the DCS Commander, which has a very good quality DC throttle built in. Unfortunately, the DCS Commander is an entry level console unit and dose not give you a walk around throttle. The other option is to use the variable channels on a TIU with a bridge rectifier. Each TIU has two built in AC throttles that can be controlled from the DCS remote (cab). In several installations I have used bridge rectifiers and a capacitor to convert the variable AC into filtered DC with excellent results. Each TIU variable channel can control up to 10 amps, so there is plenty of power for controlling open frame motor.
One other thing to keep in mind is that, unlike DCC, DCS runs in command mode on DC current. You will not harm your analog engines by placing them on a track with the DCS signal present. You can have one analog engine share an electrical block with any number of DCS engines and operate both simultaneously with some limitations. On one of my current projects we have installed DCS in parallel with a PFM sound system. The two can co-exist on the same track at the same time without interference in case any of your older engines have PFM sound.
You can run these engines in analog DC. DCS cannot access any of the sound features, but it will co-exist with MRC's Black Box and other products that do provide access.
I would agree that if you intend to add many DCC equipped engines over time you will want a DCC system. However, if you want to keep many engines analog, DCS has some attractive qualities.
Thanks to all that have replied. Great information.
Is it possible that Dave Hikel can contact me off list as I would like to discuss more information that may not be of interest to others. How can we do that?
Thank you
I have owned the MTH DCS Controller, and I was able to run analog DC engines without any trouble at the time. It actually was a very nice controller, and I believe the power is filtered so as not to harm older analog engines. The dial speed control is really nice. I would recommend it for someone who wants to be primarily DC only, but might want to run the MTH engines with sound/smoke/lights, etc. It works wonderfully for those purposes.
When I got out of steam a couple years ago, I sold the DCS controller.
There is another solution (besides the MRC Black Box or BLI DC Master) for running both plain DC locomotives and DCC/Sound equipped units: It is the MRC Sound Controller 2.0. It is reasonably priced, and does allow one to use some of the DCC commands (including most of the sounds and light commands at the touch of a button for functions 0 through 9)--but not all DCC functions are available. Sometimes I have to reset decoder equipped locomotives one time to factory default settings in order for them to run, but then they run, light, and make noise just fine for me. You do also have limited ability to program or adjust cv's--I just don't bother to fool with that. Any programming you do on the Sound Controller might have to be redone if you later run the engine on a full blown DCC system.
Apparently, few people on the online forums have tried the Sound Controller 2.0, because one just does not hear about it much. My favorite train store does use it on their layout to test new engines--so I know it works for many.
I have operated brass and other much older analog locomotives with both power supplies--the MTH DCS Controller and the MRC Sound Controller 2.0, and there were no problems.
John