The installation usually calls for momentary push buttons but I have DPDT toggle switches now and want to still use them. The switch-it decoder shows, for eg., pole 1 & 2 with another pole common ground for two momentary buttons per one turnout. What is the configeration for the 6 poles on my toggle switch?
you dont say what type machines you use..but since you mention DPDT switches I would guess Tortoises?
Yes, tortoises. But the power and tortoise switch machine side of the switch-it is easy to hook up. It's the panel board DPDT switch side I'm not sure how to hook up.
A DPDT switch has 6 contacts or soldering points on the under side. The arrangement is three in line with two rows. Each Pole uses the three in line, with the center being the common one to that Pole. The other three points make up the other Pole.
o o o One Pole (1/2 the switch)
o o o Other Pole (1/2 the switch)
You only need 1/2 of the switch, or one Pole. HOWEVER, the reason for the push buttons is so that the ground is not always applied or 'ON' after pushing the button, which may be bad for the device, or may not allow the other inputs to work. The device requires only a momentary push ON to work. To use toggle switches for this, you should use SPDT (Momentary Center Off). The throw positions would be - (Mom on - off - mom on).
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
JWK Railway The installation usually calls for momentary push buttons but I have DPDT toggle switches now and want to still use them. The switch-it decoder shows, for eg., pole 1 & 2 with another pole common ground for two momentary buttons per one turnout. What is the configeration for the 6 poles on my toggle switch?
So if I'm reading your description right, I only need to use half of the switch or just one pole and then put poles 1 and 2 from the switch-it to the outside poles on the switch and use the middle pole for common to common poles (or is that not even needed). Always putting the toggle handle back to the center position to shut off the switch motor. Should I program the CV for that turnout before I solder on the wiring for the toggle switch?
DO NOT USE A DPDT SWITCH WITH THE SWITCHIT, YOU WILL BURN IT OUT.
Momentary, normally off push buttons are cheaper than candy bars. Buy the buttons.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Thank you gandydancer19. I hooked up one pole with the three wires and now my switch-it works both ways: off of the CV and off of the toggle switch.
I agree with Dave. By using a standard DPDT instead of the recommended momentary buttons, you are risking a costly failure. If you forget to center the toggle, you may regret the decision.
If the DPDT "works," then replace it with a SPDT-momentary toggle. It will take the same space on your panel and look the same, but it's got a spring to bring it back to the center off position. You've bought a turnout, a Tortoise and a Switch- it. Don't worry about another dollar to protect them from electrical damage.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
You are right, Mr. Beasley. Yes, my toggle did work, but only on one phase switch position using one side of a regular DPDT toggle. I called NCE this morning before I read your comment and they gave me the exact same advice that you gave me. (Do you work for them?) Thank you and I'm on my way shortly to a large electronics store to purchase some SPDT momentary toggles. I prefer them to buttons.
I played around with the SPDT momentary switch that I bought this afternoon and put a black common wire from the switch-it to the center pole on the toggle and used just one red wire from the switch-it to one of the outside poles on the toggle switch. Then I put a jumper wire from outside pole to outside pole. This worked. I was able to now switch the turnout from one position to the next with using only two wires from the switch-it, instead of the three wires needed when using two push buttoms. This configuration is working great now with only one turnout on the switch-it. I don't know if I can copy this on my next switch-it which will operate two turnouts.
JWK RailwayI was able to now switch the turnout from one position to the next with using only two wires from the switch-it, instead of the three wires needed when using two push buttoms.
If I remember correctly, the instructions indicate that you can program the Switch-It to operate with only one push button, so you'd need only two wires per output. See page 2 of: http://www.ncedcc.com/pdf/switchb1.pdf
Yes but if you use one button on a switch which is out of your line of sight, you may not remember what direction it was last set in. I put a red (siding) and green (main line) dot on either side of the momentary toggle on the panel board to easily keep track of which direction I want to go and those mini toggles are installed along the taped layout schematic. Someday I may work on installing directional lighting.
I would like to thank everyone on here who helped me through this problem and will now consider the problem solved and will sign off.
With a Tortoise you can put a 2-lead bicolor LED, or a red and green LED, or any color you like, in series witht he motor line to use as indicators, no additional resistors or anything needed. One set of LEDs is about all that will work with a Switch-It though,m the output voltage on them is already kinda low.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I just bought a Switch-It yesterday, and discovered that it works off track power. So, That means a constant 20 ma draw for each Tortoise in use. I'm using control panel toggles for most of my turnouts, with these two DCC-controlled because a panel would be awkward. So, I'm only going to be using about 40 ma on my 5 amp Lenz system, and I'm not worried.
But, for those who might be considering the Switch-It for large numbers of Tortoises, this could be an issue.
I have 70 throws. 59 manual and 11 tortoise controlled, used in areas that I can't reach or see. I did replace the 11 DPDT with SPDT momentary toggles, so the motor only stays on long enough to make the switch. And I finally found out what was causing all my problems on my first set-up. I used #18 3 conductor stranded wire and one of the hair sized strands "got away" and was shorting out the toggle switch. I didn't see it at first when I made my connections. Anyway, after I fixed the problem I ran two engines while switching and it did not slow down the engines in the least bit. After I install more switch-its, I'll try switching two or three switches at the same time and see if that slows the engines. Reading the NCE manual, I think I can raise the voltage slightly if needed.
JWK RailwayI did replace the 11 DPDT with SPDT momentary toggles, so the motor only stays on long enough to make the switch.
I'm sorry, but you have me totally confused. Where, exactly, did you connect those toggle switches?
If you connected them to the proper location on the Switch-It, they don't do anything to shut off power to the Tortoise. All they do is activate the circuit to throw the Tortoise one way or the other. Which ever way the Toroise gets thrown, it still has track power holding it in that position.
And I would not try raising the voltage. The Switch-It is using current, not voltage. The number of Switch-Its multiplied by the amount of milliamps each draws equals the amount of current they will pull away from track amperage. If you see locos slow down when you throw the Switch-Its, in my opinion something is very wrong.
Thank you maxman. I'm the one who was confused. I just assumed I had no power at the tortoise because once it was thrown, I didn't hear a motor noise, but after your comment I put a meter on it, and it is live. I won't change any voltage, but as I add more machines I will monitor the draw on my 5 amp system. If need be, I'll just add another 5 amp booster.
You might want to look into a different device to drive your Tortoises. The Digitrax DS64, for example, will drive 4 turnouts, and has the option to either use track power or take power from an external supply. It will cost more per turnout than the Switch-It, but the overall price for enough DS64s to run Tortoises may still be less than the cost of Switch-Its plus a booster.
JWK Railwayas I add more machines I will monitor the draw on my 5 amp system. If need be, I'll just add another 5 amp booster.
If current draw of the Tortoises are a potential concern, I would run a separate bus just for the Tortoise machines at the get-go. What I did was run the command station bus wires to a terminal strip. At that point the bus split. One set of wires ran to a breaker and then on to the track bus. The other set of wires became to the turnout bus. With this configuration, any track shorts are handled by the breaker and keep the command station breaker from tripping. If the short is due to running a loco the wrong way through a switch, the fact that the turnouts are powered from the other bus ahead of the breaker allow you to correct the turnout position.
The other thing this does for you is give you a convenient place to connect another booster for turnout power if you need it, since that bus will now be existing.
I just checked the paperwork for the tortoises and they draw around 15 ma each and I have eleven of them. I should be ok, but I like your idea of installing a breaker. Right now I have the comand wires running about one foot long to a terminal connecting to the main buss #12 wire. I tapped into the #12 wires a couple of inches past that terminal strip and ran #18 wire to two terminal strips with six screws each then will feed all 11 switches from here. Also, about six inches past that tie-in to the main buss line, I tapped into the main again to power the turntable track. Then every three feet on the layout track I put #18 drops from the track to the buss. (Hundreds of solder joints). A PSX-AR board from Tony's trains handles the double reverse loop yard area.
It will take a LOT of Tortoises before you need to worry about overlaoding a 5 amp system. At 15ma each, it takes 100 of them to draw 1.5 amps.
That said, it WOULD be better to have some alternative way of powering them, by at least adding a circuit breaker for the track and pulling a bus line for the stationary decoders out before the breakers, that way a track short won;t stop you from throwing a tuirnout, which is usually what caused the short int he first palce - running into a switch set against you. Or hook up one of the cheap Tam Valley boosters and use that to power the stationary decoders while the main output goes only to the track.
Thanks for the tip on the Tam Valley booster, Randy, and thanks to all for this thread. As it happens, I just bench-tested my first stationary decoder last night, a Switch-It that will drive Tortoises at the carfloat terminal.
Knowing more than I did a week ago just makes the whole job much easier.