Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Need Short Vandy Tender Drawings

2025 views
13 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Need Short Vandy Tender Drawings
Posted by C&O Fan on Friday, February 8, 2013 4:41 PM

I checked the bachman site but nothing there

and posted on the forum

I need to be able to figure out the wiring connection plugs

there are 2

one is a 2 wire plug (guessing that's the lights)

the other is a 4 wire plug (guessing that's the Red / Black pick up wires and the 2 motor wires

but need to know which is which

TIA

Terry

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: N.E. Lancashire (off Jnt. 12, M65.
  • 215 posts
Posted by john.pickles87 on Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:00 AM

Hi Terry,

I think you'll find, checking with a meter, on the loco side the pair of pins are pickups from the rails.  Touch one pin to on of the drivers to find which.

The flat 4 are Motor and lights, which pair is which right now, no idea, a check with the meter if it bleeps that will indicate the pairs.  Can't remember which is lights but if you tag a 1K resister on a DC supply and tap the pins that should give some light to indicate which is which without blowing anything.

  Hope I'm making sense,  last time I put in me two pennyworth it all went wrong.

Be in touch.

pick.

?
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:08 AM

john.pickles87

Hi Terry,

I think you'll find, checking with a meter, on the loco side the pair of pins are pickups from the rails.  Touch one pin to on of the drivers to find which.

The flat 4 are Motor and lights, which pair is which right now, no idea, a check with the meter if it bleeps that will indicate the pairs.  Can't remember which is lights but if you tag a 1K resister on a DC supply and tap the pins that should give some light to indicate which is which without blowing anything.

  Hope I'm making sense,  last time I put in me two pennyworth it all went wrong.

Be in touch.

pick.

I got a closer look at the PC board by taking the tender apart and the wires are labled on the PC board

but would still like a drawing as some of Bachman's tenders are wired differently than thier locos

I don't have the loco yet

Just the tender

 

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, February 9, 2013 3:44 PM

As was said, get your meter out and do some research. This is what you have to do when you work at this level in DCC.

The decoder instructions/drawing will show you which of the eight pins are used for what.

Don't "guess" when it comes to DCC.

The only drawings of electrical in almost any DCC loco/tender is what the user makes.

The two connector is for track power. The four connector, light and motor. SOP for Bachmann. I have some Bachmann steamers.

Does your loco have a light bulb or LED? Some, not all tenders use both light pins on the PC board with a resistor to dim the headlight.

I have one tender with a resistor but it is only to dim the light bulb in the loco. Not made for an LED. I had to add a 1k resistor to use it with a loco with an LED. As I said, do some research, first.

Some tenders might have a light and use the second light pin on the PC board.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Saturday, February 9, 2013 4:03 PM

richg1998

As was said, get your meter out and do some research. This is what you have to do when you work at this level in DCC.

The decoder instructions/drawing will show you which of the eight pins are used for what.

Don't "guess" when it comes to DCC.

The only drawings of electrical in almost any DCC loco/tender is what the user makes.

The two connector is for track power. The four connector, light and motor. SOP for Bachmann. I have some Bachmann steamers.

Does your loco have a light bulb or LED? Some, not all tenders use both light pins on the PC board with a resistor to dim the headlight.

I have one tender with a resistor but it is only to dim the light bulb in the loco. Not made for an LED. I had to add a 1k resistor to use it with a loco with an LED. As I said, do some research, first.

Some tenders might have a light and use the second light pin on the PC board.

Rich

Sorry Rich as i stated before i only have the Tender >No Loco

and from what i've been reading on other forms Bachman has no >SOP<  on tender wiring see the copied post below in quotes

" I just spent several hours trying to resolve what should have not been a problem. I bought a Spectrum Vandy tender to put behind a Spectrum 2-10-2. The models had the same plugs on tender and locomotive that are used on all the spectrum steamers. For all intents and purposes it should have been a simple plug and play to put a decoder in the tender and go. Little did I know Bachmann wired the plugs different. On the locomotive the 4 pin plug had to the two motor leads between the two front headlight leads. On the Tender the pairs of leads were side by side. Need less to say I blew the front headlight right away, and the locomotive was trying to run forward continuously without control. So much for a simple project, I tore out the circuit board in the tender and rewired the whole thing."

So that is why i ask for the wiring photos of the short Vandy tender
If you know where i can find them i'd love a link

Thanks Terry

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, February 9, 2013 4:42 PM

The loco might have had an LED and some tenders come with no LED resistor.

Below is the standard

Pin 1 Motor right Orange

Pin 2 Light rear Yellow

Pin 3 Optional

Pin 4 Power pickup left Black

Pin 5 Motor left Gray

Pin 6 Light front White

Pin 7 Common Blue

Pin 8 Power pickup right Red

What my issue was, both the loco and tender and sockets on them. I had to use the two pin and four pin adapter that came with the tender. Those two adapters reversed all three functions. I rewired the tender to match the loco which has a LED so I added the 1k resistor. I had to do my own troubleshooting, drawing and rewire.

To my knowledge, all the Bachmann have the pickups on the two wire connector. A simple continuity check will prove that. I said before, do some research and you will learn more about DC. You probably do not know much about wiring but if you insist on working at this level in DCC, you are going to have to learn how. Sorry to be so blunt.

Put you meter probe on the side of each connector. There is a small metal strip. The other probe on the PC board pin. Look for essentially zero ohms. The two light pins will show maybe 2k resistance if there are resistors on the PC board. Look at the PC board for R!, R2, R3, etc.

Cut out the capacitors C!, C2, etc. The two inductors will not be an issue.

When you get the loco, find out which pins connect to the drivers with your meter.

Find out if the loco has an LED or light bulb.

Normally, a light bulb will be a few ohms resistance.

A LED, very high resistance. On a digital meter, you will usually see OL on the display.

A motor, maybe 50 to 100 ohms. When you work at this level, you really need to know what you are doing. With a 9 volt battery, the plus on Pin 1 and minus on pin 5, the drivers will spin in the forward direction if the two wires are correct.

All this is too much, rip out the PC board and hardwire. Forget plug and play when it comes to some of the Bachmann steamers.

The Bachmann  Doodlebug use to have a mis-wire that blew out decoders.

I just looked at a diagram from the Bachmann forum for the 2-8-0 and wiring from the tender trucks to the PC board could be different, The only fix is to check the wiring yourself. There is no guarantee that your tender could be like someone else's.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, February 9, 2013 4:57 PM

This is my Spectrum 4-6-0. I bought the USRA Medium tender. The three functions where reversed by the two short jumpers. Look at the wiring and you will see the functions are not according to the NMRA wiring because of the reversal in the jumpers.

The resistor was only to dim the headlight in reverse. No resistor for an LED loco.

The modified tender with the jumpers to plug in the loco.

Another fly in the ointment, non NMRA wiring colors.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: N.E. Lancashire (off Jnt. 12, M65.
  • 215 posts
Posted by john.pickles87 on Sunday, February 10, 2013 6:56 AM

Hi Terry,

Not pushing my luck here, but them Bachmann drawings look like they're done by a left handed china-man used to working with mandarin graphics, 

That's why I have a 1K resister wired between an alligator clip and spare meter plug stuck in a wire wrap glued to me toolbox lid.  The number of times a body has said to me this has stopped, can you tell me why and to teach them.  I've stuck the meter and that probe in their hand and said you find it, I'll show you.  One junior has turned into a real good fixer and Decoder installer, I send em to him now the arthritis is starting to get at me.

It's like cutting something, have a good look round the wiring twice then plug it in and pray.

Be in touch.

pick.

?
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:34 AM

richg1998

The loco might have had an LED and some tenders come with no LED resistor.

Below is the standard

Pin 1 Motor right Orange

Pin 2 Light rear Yellow

Pin 3 Optional

Pin 4 Power pickup left Black

Pin 5 Motor left Gray

Pin 6 Light front White

Pin 7 Common Blue

Pin 8 Power pickup right Red

What my issue was, both the loco and tender and sockets on them. I had to use the two pin and four pin adapter that came with the tender. Those two adapters reversed all three functions. I rewired the tender to match the loco which has a LED so I added the 1k resistor. I had to do my own troubleshooting, drawing and rewire.

To my knowledge, all the Bachmann have the pickups on the two wire connector. A simple continuity check will prove that. I said before, do some research and you will learn more about DC. You probably do not know much about wiring but if you insist on working at this level in DCC, you are going to have to learn how. Sorry to be so blunt.

Put you meter probe on the side of each connector. There is a small metal strip. The other probe on the PC board pin. Look for essentially zero ohms. The two light pins will show maybe 2k resistance if there are resistors on the PC board. Look at the PC board for R!, R2, R3, etc.

Cut out the capacitors C!, C2, etc. The two inductors will not be an issue.

When you get the loco, find out which pins connect to the drivers with your meter.

Find out if the loco has an LED or light bulb.

Normally, a light bulb will be a few ohms resistance.

A LED, very high resistance. On a digital meter, you will usually see OL on the display.

A motor, maybe 50 to 100 ohms. When you work at this level, you really need to know what you are doing. With a 9 volt battery, the plus on Pin 1 and minus on pin 5, the drivers will spin in the forward direction if the two wires are correct.

All this is too much, rip out the PC board and hardwire. Forget plug and play when it comes to some of the Bachmann steamers.

The Bachmann  Doodlebug use to have a mis-wire that blew out decoders.

I just looked at a diagram from the Bachmann forum for the 2-8-0 and wiring from the tender trucks to the PC board could be different, The only fix is to check the wiring yourself. There is no guarantee that your tender could be like someone else's.

Rich

It could be that what i am asking for doesn't exist since the Bachman site doesn't have any drawings of the short tender  just the long one

And there was no paper sheet showing a parts explosion  in the box accompanying the tender

I've written to Peach Creek to ask if they have a drawing

It really depends which loco i buy what i will end up doing if i go with the early 0-6-0 NON spectrum cheap Bachman i will probably gut the tender and use a 6 pin connector plug from TCS

  http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=999007607&cat=170&page=1

These are nice looking and have very flexible wires great for loco / tender connections and the wire colors match the decoder colors I just use one on an Install for a Rivarossi Pacific when the wiring is done i simply paint the wires that show black

This will also give me more room to also install a KA2 Capacitor

If i go with the later more expensive Spectrum model i may use the board in the tender and just try plug and play

But of course i will test the plugs with my meter first to verify they match

I'm very aware of the Doodlebug miss wire by bachman as i have done 2 sound decoder installs and in that case i just scraped the PC board supplied by bachman and Hardwired them both

Here's one

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/208628.aspx

Still waiting to hear from Peach Creek

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:37 AM

john.pickles87

Hi Terry,

Not pushing my luck here, but them Bachmann drawings look like they're done by a left handed china-man used to working with mandarin graphics, 

That's why I have a 1K resister wired between an alligator clip and spare meter plug stuck in a wire wrap glued to me toolbox lid.  The number of times a body has said to me this has stopped, can you tell me why and to teach them.  I've stuck the meter and that probe in their hand and said you find it, I'll show you.  One junior has turned into a real good fixer and Decoder installer, I send em to him now the arthritis is starting to get at me.

It's like cutting something, have a good look round the wiring twice then plug it in and pray.

Be in touch.

pick.

john.pickles87

Hi Terry,

Not pushing my luck here, but them Bachmann drawings look like they're done by a left handed china-man used to working with mandarin graphics, 

That's why I have a 1K resister wired between an alligator clip and spare meter plug stuck in a wire wrap glued to me toolbox lid.  The number of times a body has said to me this has stopped, can you tell me why and to teach them.  I've stuck the meter and that probe in their hand and said you find it, I'll show you.  One junior has turned into a real good fixer and Decoder installer, I send em to him now the arthritis is starting to get at me.

It's like cutting something, have a good look round the wiring twice then plug it in and pray.

Be in touch.

pick.

Yea Pick I hear ya Old age sucks when it comes to doing this kind of stuff esp Soldering

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:45 PM

I used the oil tender from an old 0-6-0 but it does not seal very well for sound.

I had to put wipers on all the tender wheels using Kadee #5 coupler springs. I used a Tsunami Micro and 14mm x 25mm oval speaker. I followed the picture of a sound install in a DCC ready Vanderbilt from the Bachmann diagram page to drill holes and install the speaker.

Lots of bird shot glued in the shell for some weight.

I really suggest the DCC ready tender. Much better tender shell. Electrical is not a big deal. The only issue I have with their tenders is lack of all wheel pickups.

I have never considered the Bachmann PC boards and wiring to be an issue unless there was not enough room for the decoder and speaker.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:47 PM

john.pickles87

Hi Terry,

Not pushing my luck here, but them Bachmann drawings look like they're done by a left handed china-man used to working with mandarin graphics, 

That's why I have a 1K resister wired between an alligator clip and spare meter plug stuck in a wire wrap glued to me toolbox lid.  The number of times a body has said to me this has stopped, can you tell me why and to teach them.  I've stuck the meter and that probe in their hand and said you find it, I'll show you.  One junior has turned into a real good fixer and Decoder installer, I send em to him now the arthritis is starting to get at me.

It's like cutting something, have a good look round the wiring twice then plug it in and pray.

Be in touch.

pick.

I made that drawing, not Bachmann. Again, Bachmann does not and will not make electrical drawings.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Sunday, February 10, 2013 2:00 PM

richg1998

I used the oil tender from an old 0-6-0 but it does not seal very well for sound.

I had to put wipers on all the tender wheels using Kadee #5 coupler springs. I used a Tsunami Micro and 14mm x 25mm oval speaker. I followed the picture of a sound install in a DCC ready Vanderbilt from the Bachmann diagram page to drill holes and install the speaker.

Lots of bird shot glued in the shell for some weight.

I really suggest the DCC ready tender. Much better tender shell. Electrical is not a big deal. The only issue I have with their tenders is lack of all wheel pickups.

I have never considered the Bachmann PC boards and wiring to be an issue unless there was not enough room for the decoder and speaker.

Rich

The Short Vandy tender i'm using is DCC ready and comes with a PC board inside and uses an LED for the tender light

It has picks on both trucks but each truck picks up from an separate rail

If you remove the small board on the top it has labels on the board underneath

The Speaker holes are already drilled in the bottom

If you look closely at the second photo above

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: N.E. Lancashire (off Jnt. 12, M65.
  • 215 posts
Posted by john.pickles87 on Monday, February 11, 2013 2:23 PM

Hi RIch,

Right on mate, correct, not knocking your artwork, it's great.  It's the Bachmann paperwork that leaves a lot to be desired,  just keep em coming.

pick.

?

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!