I have a 4x8 layout currently wired with DC using a MRC tech ii throttle. I was looking into upgrading to DCC but I don't have much of an idea of where to start. I have looked into the NCE powercab and MRC progidy express as these are in my price range for this 4x8 layout.
As for locomotives, I have a DCC ready Athearn SD70M-2, which is my primary locomotive, a Walthers GP9 (not even sure if it has the DCC quick plug), and an old Athearn f-45 which I doubt is DCC ready.
My questions are:
1. Which DCC system would best serve someone who is new to DCC but not model railroading? Which if any support computer control via software such as JMRI? Which system is easily upgraded if I were to take the system to a new, larger layout?
2. What decoder should I use for the SD70M-2? I would like to have sound and be able to control the lights. A bit of a "newbie" question: does a sound decoder control the locomotive, lights, and sound, or do I need more than 1 decoder?
-Thanks in advance for any help!
Ohio,
If you are wanting to use JMRI to program your locomotives then you can immediately eliminate MRC from your list. They don't support it and have their own proprietary system. NCE, Digitax, Lenz, and CVP are all supported by JMRI.
As far as upgradeability between MRC and NCE: NCE would be the winner. Digitrax also has a VERY good upgrade path for their DCC systems.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I agree with Tom. I have a Digitrax system and loke it's expandability. If I want wireless I just purchase a UR9X panel and wireless throttle. NCE is also a good choice. Is there a model railroad clubclose by? If so ask what they use. I would also add the city and state you live in and find out if anyone on the forum lives close by. The reason is asking if you can try out the system they use. The diffference detween Digitrax and NCE throttles is the size. NCE uses the "hammer head" style. Digitrax is smaller and rectangular and is 2 throttles in one. Joe
1. I bought my first Digitrax system because of it's features and expandability and good support. I bought my second one for the same reason(for another layout) I like the front panel on the DT400 type throttles with plenty of functions and like the 2 knobs. I didn't think I would like the 2 knobs, but have grown to appreciate their use. They make assigning 4 digit addresses a snap, no JMRI needed(don't get me wrong, I use JMRI a lot). Great consisting, etc.
2. I have tried several different sound system chips. I have removed the rest and now standardized on Tsunami's for lots of reasons. When something better comes along I will use that. Speakers, speaker size and enclosure are key to good sound too. My 14 year old son coughed up his own $80 to change out his Atlas OEM QSI chip to Tsunami. I like the QSI chipset for the number of function outputs it has.
Richard
ba&prr I agree with Tom. I have a Digitrax system and loke it's expandability. If I want wireless I just purchase a UR9X panel and wireless throttle. NCE is also a good choice. Is there a model railroad clubclose by? If so ask what they use. I would also add the city and state you live in and find out if anyone on the forum lives close by. The reason is asking if you can try out the system they use. The diffference detween Digitrax and NCE throttles is the size. NCE uszees the "hammer head" style. Digitrax is smaller and rectangular and is 2 throttles in one. Joe
I agree with Tom. I have a Digitrax system and loke it's expandability. If I want wireless I just purchase a UR9X panel and wireless throttle. NCE is also a good choice. Is there a model railroad clubclose by? If so ask what they use. I would also add the city and state you live in and find out if anyone on the forum lives close by. The reason is asking if you can try out the system they use. The diffference detween Digitrax and NCE throttles is the size. NCE uszees the "hammer head" style. Digitrax is smaller and rectangular and is 2 throttles in one. Joe
I second the idea about local clubs or hobbyists that use DCC, even if they use a different scale than you do. Most of the advantages/disadvantages between Digitrax and NCE have a lot to do with personal preference, and getting a chance to handle and use the systems yourself before deciding is extremely helpful. Only you will know which system you like best.
Also, if you want to join a club that has a DCC system, you may want to consider their system so that you can bring your own throttle, etc. and you can get help with and become familiar with that system more quickly.
NCE's Power Cab is their entry-level system, which you seem to be aware of already. Digitrax' entry level system is the Zephyr-Xtra, which is a stationary console with alphanumeric display, keypad and a large lever/knob for speed control. Any Digitrax hand-held throttle can be purchased and used with the Zephyr.
The difference between NCE and Digitrax standard hand-held throttles is more than just size. Actually, the part you hold onto on both is the same size, but the "hammer head" at the top of the NCE throttle (Power Cab or Pro Cab) has a larger, more legible display, with prompts and status in English. The NCE buttons are larger, grouped physically by function, and are different sizes by function. The Digitrax throttle buttons are smaller and all the same size, on one rectangular grid. The Digitrax throttle display provides little symbols beneath the text that provide status information. As mentioned, the Digitrax throttle has two small knobs to control the speed of two selected locomotives. The NCE throttle has a large thumbwheel to control the speed of one selected locomotive, with a single button to swap between up to 6 selected locomotives.
Both systems offer wired or radio-controlled versions of their throttles, and both offer smaller "operator throttles" with reduced functionality.
I prefer NCE myself, primarily because of their throttle and their ease of use. But that is my personal preference, and not necessarily yours or anyone else's.
Andy
I would second taking MRC out of the equation. I think you should be deciding on a starter system from either NCE or Digitrax. Which is better? Well that can be a hot topic on here as it is like which is better Coke or Pepsi. I happen to own a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra. Two features that you might use right away are that 1. The Zephyr has jump ports so you can connect your DC power pack and use it as an extra throttle and 2. You can run 1 DC loco on address 0. Just don't leave the DC engine on the track when you are not using it.
Which system is right for you, only you can answer that. To help you decide its best to try a system. Is there a local hobby show nearby that has a layout or test track where you can try either product. A local train show may be another place to see 1 or both system in action.
I upgraded to DCC from DC when I got back into the hobby recently. So come on in and try the "waters" of DCC and you'll be glad you did.
Derek
UPinCT 2. You can run 1 DC loco on address 0. Just don't leave the DC engine on the track when you are not using it.
2. You can run 1 DC loco on address 0. Just don't leave the DC engine on the track when you are not using it.
You can run more than one DC loco (e.g. in a consist) on address zero with Digitrax systems. They will all respond to the throttle setting for address 0. Just like with DC, how closely they match in speed is a different story. DCC decoders let you speed-match different locos so they work better in consists.
Also, beware of limitations/hazards of running DC locos on DCC systems that support it.
aj1s UPinCT 2. You can run 1 DC loco on address 0. Just don't leave the DC engine on the track when you are not using it. You can run more than one DC loco (e.g. in a consist) on address zero with Digitrax systems. They will all respond to the throttle setting for address 0. Just like with DC, how closely they match in speed is a different story. DCC decoders let you speed-match different locos so they work better in consists. Also, beware of limitations/hazards of running DC locos on DCC systems that support it. Do not let a DC loco stand still on a DCC powered track (with address 0 throttle set to 0) for any extended period of time (more than a few minutes). I think this is what Derek was referring to when he said "when you are not using it". There is quite a bit of AC power flowing through the DC loco's motor even while the address zero throttle setting is 0, and if the motor is not spinning, it cannot keep itself cool. DC locos don't play well with DCC automatic reverse-loop controllers. Andy
A lot of the recent release DCC systems won't even allow you to use address 0. Not only that, engine manufacturers are also adding circuitry to not allow it as well. I think it was around the second release of Atlas' C420, they added a couple components to the board that will short out a DCC system if no decoder is installed.
That feature REALLY threw me as I was unaware of it. I sat a DC engine on the track (DCC) just so I could check the color of the LEDs. Every time I sat the engine down, it shorted out my system. I spent an hour trying to find the short - which there was none. Placed it on the track with DC and it ran like a charm barely drawing 100ma.
So the DC engines on DCC concern will take care of itself as manufacturers catch up with the technology to prevent this from even being an option.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Ohio Central,
Others have given you good advice/info on DCC systems so I'll leave that alone, other than to say I have NCE and am VERY happy with it.
I'll tackle your decoder questions;
Good luck!
They aren't deliberately blocking using address 00 on a DC loco, it's a side effect of the "rf suppression' caps and chokes - my Bachmann 44 tonner wouldn't run on address 00 either, it just shorted. So if a loco does that, those will have to be removed/bypassed when installing a decoder to get best performance anyway.
Keeps reinforncing my method of decoder install - strip all factory junk first and hardwire the decoder whenever possible. The more of this extra junk they add, the less plug and play anything will be - even if they get the wiring absolutely correct and provide an 8 pin socket with no gotchas as far as a hot chassis or some such thing, performance on any decent decoder will be horrible with those caps and chokes in there.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker They aren't deliberately blocking using address 00 on a DC loco, it's a side effect of the "rf suppression' caps and chokes - my Bachmann 44 tonner wouldn't run on address 00 either, it just shorted. So if a loco does that, those will have to be removed/bypassed when installing a decoder to get best performance anyway. Keeps reinforncing my method of decoder install - strip all factory junk first and hardwire the decoder whenever possible. The more of this extra junk they add, the less plug and play anything will be - even if they get the wiring absolutely correct and provide an 8 pin socket with no gotchas as far as a hot chassis or some such thing, performance on any decent decoder will be horrible with those caps and chokes in there. --Randy
There are no rf suppression caps or choke coils on the new Atlas engines .... yet they will trip a DCC system. (?) I noticed this started to happen sometime time during mid-run of the C420's. This last experience was with a GP40-2.
These are the ones that have the smaller circuit board with all the components (trucks / motor / lights) using plug-in connectors on the board. (?) - not the original "Atlas style" board.
Could be something wired backwards too - remember the odd miswired caps on the first run of the Gensets? Seriously, for DC operation there is no need for any electrical component on the board but some diodes if you want ot have directional lighting, and maybe dropping resistors if the lights are LEDs. I just wish they'd leave well enough alone and stop adding unecessary junk that the buildiers in China inevitably mess up. As fopr RF supression - growing up, our layout when set up was not more than 5 feet fromt he TV, which was fed via twinlead wire from the antenna, no shielded coax from the cable company back then. Running trains, 60's and early 70's vintage with none of these capaitors and open frame motors, never interferred with the picture or the sound on the TV. Nor the AM radio that was almost constantly on in the kitchen.
ANyway, I suspect a capacitor in there somewhere, maybe not a small .1 or .01uF ceramic, but a larger one, essentially across the rails.
I'll go along with Randy. Rip it all out! I even rip out their lighting and all wiring leaving only motor and frame. I do only steamers and only sound decoder installs. If you start from scratch, you are sure of what you have, right down to the wires. Price point wiring and lighting is not the best. Once done, I don't want have to go back later and clean up a factory based electrical issue.
I know the stuff I put in the engine is top drawer material and done properly while not on a time clock or doing "piece work" in China trying to win low bid to a price point related to a volume sales expectation.
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
If you haven't already jumped in an bought a system, or abandoned the idea of DCC altogether, I suggest you plan and research carefully before committing. One of the tools I used in helping me decide was the Digitrax Case Studies. From your description, the Nemo Junction case study might be the most applicable to your situation.
You can read the Digitrax Case Studies here: http://www.digitrax.com/casestudies/list/
I also suggest you read up on some of the big brands, particularly Lenz and Digitrax. Both companies have proprietary systems for two way communciation with decoders. This means you don't just know something is occupying a piece of track, you know exactly WHAT it is.
You also need to consider how "deep" you want to go into DCC. A basic system with train control only can be set up for under $200 and be running in a day. Occupancy detection adds another level that requires different wiring. Turn out control is yet another level, as are signalling and computer control.
You've asked a very big question. It can't simply be answered in a few paragraphs.
If you want to jump in and drive trains then grab a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra. Digitrax also make a board replacement decoder for the locomotive you nominated.
Cheers
Nige'
The_Ghan You also need to consider how "deep" you want to go into DCC. A basic system with train control only can be set up for under $200 and be running in a day. Occupancy detection adds another level that requires different wiring. Turn out control is yet another level, as are signalling and computer control. Cheers Nige'
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.