Just got my first DCC system hooked up tonight. An NCE Power Cab. First off, its very easy to get started and it seems like a first rate system. I did the quick start up and successfully ran some locos on the factory 3 address.
I have two issues I ask help with.
1) Only 1 of the 7 nonsound locomotives I have actually ran. It is an Atlas GP38 w/ the dual mode decoder, vintage 2002. The other locomotives did not run. They are all also Atlas GP38 w/the dual mode decoder, varing vintages from 2001 to 2007. Yes, I switched the jumper plugs to the dcc setting on all of them!
What do you suggest I do to get the others to run, since they are exactly the same type of locomotive as the one that does run? I have not tried to reset them to factory defaults, but they are factory new, so I'm thinking that I don't have to. Are these older dual mode decoders problematic?
2) The one that does run has a horrible electronic buzz beginning at speed step 1 and beyond. It does not have it when running in DC mode. Again, perhaps it is the technology of the decoder.
I also have 2 Atlas sound equipped locomotives, vintage 2009. They both worked perfectly right from the box, with sound functions working as they should.
However, since the engine sounds are loud, I use F8 to mute until I get around to programming them to be quieter. When muted and not covered up by the QSI sounds, the electronic buzz is also present as in the older nonsound locos, only noticeably quieter.
This is my first exposure to DCC. All of my Atlas locomotives run whisper quiet, like ball bearings on glass, when using my railpower power pack and AristoCraft DC throttle. So at this point, I'm a bit disappointed in the buzz.
Is this buzz something that can be eliminated, and I mean entirely, or is this something I'll just have to live with?
Thanks for your help.
- Douglas
I have that older Atlas Dual Mode GP38 (Chessie #4829), and an NCE PH-Pro command station.
The loco runs fine and there is no buzz. I have been running it for 8 years now.
Are you sure that you set the jumper correctly?
The manual states that the jumper is set to DCC at the factory. It should be positioned toward the front of the decoder, and it is positioned toward the rear of the decoder for DC.
Try a reset to factory default (CV8=8) and check the value of CV 29. You may need to turn off DC as an option.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks Rich.
Yes, the jumpers are towards the front. All 8 are set the same, and only one runs. Can't believe that I have 7 bum decoders from the factory. I'll try the CV settings.
Guess I'll try the DC off option on the newer sound equipped locos too to see if that cures the buzz.
I'll dive into all of the manuals in a few days and do some internet searches. Would like to gather some experiences here to see if my buzz problem is at all common.
Ok, so the jumpers are set correctly for DCC.
I would definitely reset CV8 to 8 on one of the seven that won't run.
No way are all 7 or 8 decoders faulty.
And these are brand new locos, correct?
Edit Note: To reset to factory defaults, CV8=33, not CV8=8 as I initially stated.
Atlas used a variety of vendors over time for those decoders. The oldest ones don't even have a high frequency type of motor drive, so they will be somewhat 'buzzy'
For all of them to be dead is kind of strange. You didn;t previously try to run them on DC with the jumper in the DCC position, did you?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Over half are LHS new. I know some were ebay new but i don't remember which ones. I've tried accessing them via road number too, just in case, but no luck there either.
I guess I'll get deeper into DCC a little earlier than I wanted to.
Hmmm. I don't recall what I did when I tested them on DC years ago. All of the jumpers were set from back to front by me tonight. I've always known the jumpers had to be set to the DC before testing, so I don't think I would have done that, but i can't say for sure.
What's bothersome is that the very new sound versions have the same buzz, just not as loud. I would think that technology would evolved beyond that by 2009.
The QSI sound ones definitely should not buzz. Mine don't. You might try doing a reset on the Powercab, I think it's around page 57 in the manual.
You're using the power supply that cam with it, right? And you have to be using the correct cable from the PCP to the cab, or else nothing would work (the 4 wire cable is missing the wires that carry the track power back to the panel).
I believe you have to write a value of '33' to CV8 for a reset om those.
Its set up correctly, using only the parts that came with the set. The sound units, a B23-7 and an MP15, work splendid, its just the slight buzz. Its seems like the problem is at my end and not common. I'll read the manuals for the locos and the system and figure this out.
The decoders in the older GP38's might be a different story. I'm less comfortable about them now as I try to remember what I did 6 years ago when I bought and tested most of them, yet I've always known about the jumper plugs.....
Thanks
Just wanted to add that you need to keep in mind that the NCE PowerCab does NOT support DC ops, not even for a single unit. I think you've double-checked that decoders that needed the jumper set one way or the other for DC ops are all in the DCC position, but that might be something that could be causing them to fail to respond en masse.
If you're still not getting a response, try a factory reset on the decoders as others have suggested. You can usually find additional documentation by Googling, so that's another option if you don't have copies of the decoder manuals.
Generally, I'd recommend setting decoders to the non-DC option. There's less chance of weird gremlins taking over your system from shorts, etc that way.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
richhotrainTry a reset to factory default (CV8=8)
I don't know which decoder actually comes with that engine, but if it is a 340 dual mode decoder the instructions, http://www.atlasrr.com/dcc/Atlas_Decoder_Manual.pdf, suggest that CV8 should be set to 33 to reset the decoder.
I don't think that's the problem. Somewhere along the way I think I was told that there was some sort of wire jumper that needed to be cut on that board if there was an operational problem on DCC, but I just don't remember the rest of the conversation.
maxman richhotrainTry a reset to factory default (CV8=8) I don't know which decoder actually comes with that engine, but if it is a 340 dual mode decoder the instructions, http://www.atlasrr.com/dcc/Atlas_Decoder_Manual.pdf, suggest that CV8 should be set to 33 to reset the decoder.
I was doing a little more research on this issue and came up with the following link to a discussion on the Atlas forum. It is 2 pages long, so be sure to take a look at the second page as well.
http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=36982&whichpage=1
Programming CV50=8 seems to have an effect on the buzz according to this discussion.
rrinker Atlas used a variety of vendors over time for those decoders. The oldest ones don't even have a high frequency type of motor drive, so they will be somewhat 'buzzy' For all of them to be dead is kind of strange. You didn;t previously try to run them on DC with the jumper in the DCC position, did you? --Randy
From everything that I read, these older decoders are Lenz decoders. The Atlas manual says that the jumpers are preset to DCC mode at the factory. The OP mentions that he moved the jumpers to DCC mode, so that would seem to indicate that he first tested the locos in DC mode. A lot of the commentary on other model railroading forums seems to indicate that a reset to factory default (CV8=33) will get these locos running. Also, disabling DC in CV29 seems to make a difference.
While these locos may be from the time period that they are all Lenz decoders, Atlas has used others over the years. The earliest dual-mode locos had Digitrax decoders,a dn they may have used an NCE at one point. Most though are probbaly Lenz.
Reset is always the ebst first step if things are wierd. I will add a repeat of my caution, the PowerCab has a 'decoder reset' menu item - DO NOT use this unless the decoder is an NCE, sinc eit actually writes out a whole slew of CVs to reset NCE decoders to their default values, and some may not apply or work differently on other brands. In the case of these particualr decoders, CV8=33 is the reset process, for Digitrax decoders it's CV8=8, etc. Each manufacturer has their own option.
I suspect the "dual mode" decoders came from the factory set up for, well, dual mode - put them on a DC layout and they work, put them on a DCC layout and they work. My guess is you're either not supposed to remove the jumpers, or only remove them if you want the engine to be DC only. I'd try putting the engines back to exactly the way they were, and see if you can read a CV from the decoder.
BTW I'm assuming you understand the default ID for a decoder is 03, and unless you change that number, you have to 'dial up' ID 03 or 0003 on your DCC system for it to access that engine??
p.s. Are you absolutely sure all the engines have decoders?? Many "DCC ready" engines come from the factory with an eight-pin receptacle on the green light board, and have a dummy plug or jumpers in place to allow DC operation. You only remove the dummy plug or jumpers so you can plug a decoder into the receptacle to convert the engine to DCC.
wjstixI suspect the "dual mode" decoders came from the factory set up for, well, dual mode - put them on a DC layout and they work, put them on a DCC layout and they work.
No, not these. It was one or the other. The jumper had to be in one position for DC and another for DCC.
Stix,
Those locos are supposed to come from the factory with a two-pin jumper set for DCC. To run in DC, the operating manual calls for moving that jumper to the other side of the pad on the decoder.
All of the locos must have a decoder installed because the OP talked about moving the jumper around on each of the 8 locos.
There seems to be a lot of information being given which may not be relevant to the OP's issue.
The only GP38 is see listed on the Atlas website for a GP38 with a dual mode decoder is what Atlas is calling a GP38 early version. For that loco the part diagram is http://www.atlasrr.com/pdf/HO%20EARLY%20GP-38%20LOCO%202.pdf. The circuit board on the diagram is shown as a dual mode decoder 340. The instructions for that decoder appear to be http://www.atlasrr.com/dcc/Atlas_Decoder_Manual.pdf.
If I remember correctly from some units I have with a similar configuration, the jumper is actually a 6-pin configuration. Since the sketch in the decoder manual shows a total of nine holes, I think my memory should be working properly.
On the other hand if the OP actually has something different, then it would probably be helpful if the exact model were identified.
Regards
Back when I started, one of my locos had some what of a buzz. The answer I got from the forum was to change the pulse frequency of the decoder or something to that effect. I can't remember for sure what that was all about. The loco does not buzz now.
Good luck.
Lee
My Atlas GP-38 is Item #9154. I bought it new in 2004.
The circuit board includes a 6-pin female connector pad. The jumper is a 4-pin male connector.
For DCC operation, the 2 left side male pins go into the center connectors of the pad and the 2 right side male pins go into the right connectors toward the front of the decoder.
For DC operation, the 2 right side male pins go into the center connectors of the pad and the 2 left side male pins go into the left connectors toward the rear of the decoder.
A day has passed and significant progress has been made!
I received a very nice PM from a representative at Atlas explaining most of the issues. Apparently, Atlas monitors this forum or received some sort of notification.
The older GP38 decoders are numbers 340/341. They are only 2 function and are programmed from the factory using the LAST 2 DIGITS of the road number, not default 3. The one locomotive that ran is road number 2003, so entering 3 into the NCE system as a typical default code worked.
All of the other locomotives now run once I used the last 2 digit address for them.
As far as the buzz, nothing will suppress it since these decoders do not support silent running or high frequency running. I set the CVs to the values described in RichHO's links and no change in noise was noted. The Atlas rep indicated the only way to eliminate the low speed buzz on these early decoders, about 10-12 year old vintage now, is to replace the decoder. He suggested two brands.
I tested some other GP38's that I have, yes I like the Atlas GP38, and the later vintage decoders, number 342, do not buzz. This may be why some here reported no buzzing with their Atlas decoders.
The numbers 340/341 or 342 are plainly printed on the side of the box.
Any buzzing associated with the sound locomotives I attribute to typical DC motor sound, but it does seem to be a bit louder than older vintage locos. Perhaps some breaking in will help. Its not bad anyway.
Kudos to Atlas for offering their response. I love their locomotives and I've always thought they were a first rate company.
BTW: programming CV's on the NCE is a piece of cake.
Hopes this helps for others who may be following this thread.
Hey, good results, which is the important thing. Good to see Atlas come through for you.
Yep, good, buzz-free decoders can be had for $15 or less, so that'll solve you problem.
As for NCE, you're right on. I love my NCE stuff, but just get cornfused running Digitrax.