Hi everyone,
We are ready to wire our layout for DCC and we’ve decided to go with a Digitrax system. However, before making a purchase, I wanted to check on a few things to make sure we are getting a system that works for our needs. In other words I don’t mind paying to do things right, but I don’t want to pay double the price to get things I don’t need or won’t use.
Background Info
The Basic Questions
For the layout I’ve constructed, will 5 amps suffice or do I need to go with 8 amps? Does it matter?
Should I invest in a booster, or am I okay with my layout size?
I’m attracted to the Duplex Radio options, but not necessarily the price. Again, convenience aside, does it really matter on an 11x13 layout with an open middle operating area, or am I going to wish I’d gone radio in 6 months?
For what I’ve described, is there really a point to going with the Super Chief over the Super Empire Builder?
My Conclusion
Thoughts, suggestions, ideas?
5 amps is more than enough, you would be fine with the 3 Amp Zephyr system even. You won't need an additional booster.
Why not get a Zephyr xtra, a UR92 and a DT402D throttle. Then you will have a static base station and Duplex wireless, so a guest can run trains at the same time.
If you are hooked on going with the bigger 5 A sets then get the Super Chief as it supports CV read-back, which I think is important.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
5 amps is MORE than enough to run 2 trains at once. In fact, I suggest a better option would be to get the Zephyr Xtra since this has a dedicated program track with readback, which the Super Empire Builder does not. You can add additional throttles, and UP5 plates to plug them in - or add wireless. The Zephyr Xtra comes with a power supply. At 3.5 amps it will also easily run two trains. I have the old Zephyr, which is 2.5 amps, and I had 8 locos, 4 with sound, all running at once, and ran out of space before I ran out of power.
If you do still get the SEBX, the PS2012 is NOT the power supply to get, way overkill and expensive. The PS514 is what you want. 5 amp power supply for a 5 amp system. But you really don't need 5 amps.
If you run from the middle, you can probbaly reach all sides with 2 or maybe 4 UP5 panels, the throttle cords stretch pretty far. My room is 10x17 and I cna reach most of it from one location, with two UP5's I could easily reach it all. Adding radio later does not incure a cost penalty, you can send the throttle back for a radio upgrade, the the cost for that is exactly the same as the price difference between the radio and non-radio throttle.
If you start with the Zephyr Xtra now, and later move and have the space for a barn-size layout, the Zephyr can still be used as a booster and throttle in a larger system with a bigger command station and additional boosters. One of the nice things about Digitrax, nothing is ever wasted when you expand.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Regardless which system you choose be sure to get a good foundation with solid wiring under the layout. A 14ga buss with plenty of feeders, solder everything. Don't rely on track connectors to carry current from one section of track to the next.
You won't regret getting the wiring right from the start.
rrinker 5 amps is MORE than enough to run 2 trains at once. In fact, I suggest a better option would be to get the Zephyr Xtra since this has a dedicated program track with readback, which the Super Empire Builder does not. You can add additional throttles, and UP5 plates to plug them in - or add wireless. The Zephyr Xtra comes with a power supply. At 3.5 amps it will also easily run two trains. I have the old Zephyr, which is 2.5 amps, and I had 8 locos, 4 with sound, all running at once, and ran out of space before I ran out of power. If you do still get the SEBX, the PS2012 is NOT the power supply to get, way overkill and expensive. The PS514 is what you want. 5 amp power supply for a 5 amp system. But you really don't need 5 amps. If you run from the middle, you can probbaly reach all sides with 2 or maybe 4 UP5 panels, the throttle cords stretch pretty far. My room is 10x17 and I cna reach most of it from one location, with two UP5's I could easily reach it all. Adding radio later does not incure a cost penalty, you can send the throttle back for a radio upgrade, the the cost for that is exactly the same as the price difference between the radio and non-radio throttle. If you start with the Zephyr Xtra now, and later move and have the space for a barn-size layout, the Zephyr can still be used as a booster and throttle in a larger system with a bigger command station and additional boosters. One of the nice things about Digitrax, nothing is ever wasted when you expand. --Randy
Randy's advice is spot on as usual. I have the Zephyr Extra, and since I am modeling modern UP, I run my trains in multi unit consists. I have 6 tsunami equipped Athearn SD70Ace's always running, plus various non sound switchers. No problems.
I have an 8'-4" x 11'-6" doughnut layout operated from the doughnut hole. I have the Zephyr Extra and a second throttle, the UT4R. I frequently run 2 locos simultaneously, but operating alone, I do not anticipate operating 3 unless I have another guest for whom I will need an additional throttle. The Zephyr should be more than adequate even then.
Regarding the wiring, I have a 16awg bus and 22awg feeders connected with the proper size Scotchloks. Contrary to conventional wisdom, I do not solder all my rail joiners; only on curves. The track and turnouts are Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 and their W/S joiners fit very tightly compared to Atlas joiners. I also treated the rail ends with No-Ox before joining them. Neither do I have feeders to every rail section. There are feeders at the quarter points of the layout and at other locations made necessary because some of my many turnouts are the older, non-DCC variety. I carefully spotted the feeders on the plan first, tracing the current flow as affected by insulating gaps. Voltage on the track is uniform throughout the layout.
The layout has been operating successfully for 6 months. If eventually any of the joiners do fail to maintain electrical continuity, I can always solder them (without removal). If the number of feeders I have eventually prove insufficient, I can always add more.
Save yourself extra work until you really have to do more, if ever.
Dante
P.S. Other important factors: The layout is in a climate-controlled bedroom; the benchwork and Homabed roadbed are painted to minimize moisture absorption; the maximum temperature variation in the room should not exceed 20-25 degrees.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned here. As sold, the Zephyr can perform a CV readback when programming, the Super Empire Builder cannot.
I was all gung-ho for the SEB myself, but a kind LHS employee steered me away from it and put a Zephyr in my hands. I am truly grateful for that. Get the Zephyr. You won't regret it.
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
Sir,
Lots of good advice above that I don't need to repeat. I can however recount some experience.
I too was attracted to the Empire Builder for its apparent scalability. I became frustrated at the lack of a dedicated programming track and no CV readback. I've since upgraded to a SC and use the EB as a zone booster. (The Zephyr was released days after I made the upgrade. Whatever.)
I recommend planning zoned short circuit protection, if for no other reason than to identify problems when they arise.
When wiring your track use the quarter test frequently and in many many locations on your layout. The 'quarter test' is where you place a metal object on the rails to deliberately short the supply. The short circuit protection MUST operate every time no exception. If the protection does not operate you need more/better feeders or bus wiring.
Keep your stick on the ice. Dwayne A.
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm sure we'll be posting again when we run into a question with the actual wiring.
Based on the feedback, we're going to go with the Zephyr. The feedback seems very positive and the price difference will go towards buying some of the supplies we will need.
Ordering tonight. Wish us luck!