I have everything wired from the one power pack, to the terminal block used for DC, from the terminal block to the respective terminal rerailers. I have the same power pack wired to another terminal block for accessories and then to the 2 remotes for the 2 turnouts which are connected to the turnouts themselves. With everything wired like this it works great.
But there is a new problem and I think I know why and what to do to fix it, tell me if I'm correct.
Problem: With wiring running from the terminals connected to the passing siding to the toggle switch, then from the toggle switch to the terminal block connected to the DC power, the toggle switch acts as a master switch for the entire layout. Even with the passing siding isolated with insulated plastic rail joiners on both sides of the terminals connected to the passing siding.
Here is what I think the solution is: Connect a sub terminal block to the main terminal block and connect the toggle switch to the sub block along with connecting it to the terminals connected to the passing siding.
I need to isolate the passing siding and be able to turn it on an off as needed. Which is why I am using insulated rail joiners on both sides of the terminal connection.
If this is not correct, please advise.
If I follow your description correctly, then I believe you are spot on in your solution: Install the toggle somewhere on a separate wire run from the main terminal block to the siding and insulate the siding using insulated rail joiners.
EDIT:Did a little bit of post Post searching and found this thread. It shows TWO cab control, but the basics for switching a 'Block' or your passing siding are there.
I like pictures waaaay more than text :)
Dave Loman
My site: The Rusty Spike
"It's a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 2 cents in.... hey, someone's making a penny!"
The siding is already insulated with plastic rail joiners. The terminal blocks I am using are 8 position barrier strips with the connections jumpered.
I am running Bachmann EZ Track, not flex or continuous, so I need a terminal on each side of the track. The terminals to the siding are a pair of terminal rail joiners.
So I under how my solution should work it will be:
There's no need for a second terminal block. First, hoom the termianl track on the siding to the existing terminal blocks like the other sections are wired. train should be able to go through the siding, just no way to turn it off independly at this point.
Next step depends on how many pins you toggle switch has. If it's 2 or three, break ONE wire going to the siding's terminal track, connect the side going to the trackto the end pin on the toggle switch, connect the wire going back to the terminal blocks to the other side (or middle, if the toggle has 3).
If the toggle has 4 or 6 pins, cut both wires going to the siding's terminal track. Connect the side going to the track to the two end pins on the toggle. Connect the wires going to the terminal blocks to the other side or center two pins on the toggle.
Not sure how you could have put a toggle that acts as a master power switch, unless you put it betwene the power pack and the terminal block, or you connected it across the track power wires so it actually shorts things out when turned on. If you stand back and look, neither of those options even remotely makes sense to accomplish what needs to be done.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy, I agree with what you are saying, but what I don't understand is if SUX wired in that toggle switch the way that he said he did, that setup should have worked to cut power to the siding without cutting power to the entire layout.
So my question to SUX is: where on the terminal block did you screw down the wires from the toggle switch? And did the other set of wires on the toggle switch connect directly to the siding terminal?
Rich
Edit Note: It looks like I posted at the same time as SUX.
SUX, how many wires are on that switch you installed? You need four wires, a postive and negative to the terminal block and a positive and negative to the siding terminal.
Alton Junction
SUX, I recall that thread as I provided one of those wiring schematics.
You need a toggle switch that has a positive wire and a negative wire that connect to the two sides of that DC barrier strip. Then you need two wires, a positive wire and a negative wire from the other end of the toggle switch to the siding terminal.
Or, if you want to stick with the 2-wire switch, then wire it up as Randy indicated in his reply.
richhotrain Randy, I agree with what you are saying, but what I don't understand is if SUX wired in that toggle switch the way that he said he did, that setup should have worked to cut power to the siding without cutting power to the entire layout. So my question to SUX is: where on the terminal block did you screw down the wires from the toggle switch? And did the other set of wires on the toggle switch connect directly to the siding terminal? Rich Edit Note: It looks like I posted at the same time as SUX. SUX, how many wires are on that switch you installed? You need four wires, a postive and negative to the terminal block and a positive and negative to the siding terminal.
I have been reading this thread about Sux trying to understand block DC wiring and I've come to the conclusion that he is only confusing himself more and more.... I wish he would just break down and purchase a book on DC and block wiring...... nuff said...
Cheers to all,,,
Frank (zstripe) 3cab DC block wiring for 55yrs
zstripeI have been reading this thread about Sux trying to understand block DC wiring and I've come to the conclusion that he is only confusing himself more and more.... I wish he would just break down and purchase a book on DC and block wiring...... nuff said...
I came to the exact same conclusion several threads ago. For reasons unknown, he stubbornly refuses to follow convention block wiring because he feels his way is better. If Sux would have followed my schematic or others, he would have been done weeks ago.
Or he could have used toggles in place of the selector. Either way if you want to isolate sidings, yards and have 2 power pack control that is how you do it.
Buy a book Sux and start running trains instead of shuffling terminal blocks.
Jim
I can't speak for SUX, but I believe that he is using the barrier strips as a way to keep his wiring organized and traceable.
The fact that he used those jumper plates on the barrier strips probably is the source of his confusion.
Now he needs to understand the concept of the electrical circuit with that toggle switch.
I say, kudos to him. He is asking for help and advice, he is getting it, and he will learn through this trial and error process.
In the long run, he will be better for it and a lot more knowledgeable.
richhotrain I can't speak for SUX, but I believe that he is using the barrier strips as a way to keep his wiring organized and traceable. The fact that he used those jumper plates on the barrier strips probably is the source of his confusion. Now he needs to understand the concept of the electrical circuit with that toggle switch. I say, kudos to him. He is asking for help and advice, he is getting it, and he will learn through this trial and error process. In the long run, he will be better for it and a lot more knowledgeable. Rich
Rich,
Amen,,,
Cheers,
Frank
SUX V R40 RiderWithout the insulated rail joiners, using the metal ones and without the toggle switch, the train goes through the siding just fine. The toggle does not have pins. It has 2 screw connectors and is a simple on/of single pole single throw switch. The way it is currently connected is from the power pack to the terminal block, from the terminal block to the toggle switch, from the toggle switch to the terminals connected to the siding. So where did i go wrong?
If there are only two screws on the switch then it cannot possibly connect to BOTH terminals on the sidin'g terminal track.
That's the first option I described. Put it back so that the terminal track is connected to the strips the same way the main strack is, but leave in the insualted joiners. The train should be able to run either way. If there is a short when you go on the siding, then you have the two wires reversed that feed ther siding. Get that right and working.
Once that is working - disconnect ONE and ONLY ONE wire fromt he siding terminal track to the terminal strip. Connect that to one screw of the toggle. Take another wire and connect if from the terminal strip where you just removed a wire, and connect the other end to the remaining screw on the toggle. Witht he toggle in the off position, the train should not move on the siding.
The only thing that should EVER connect two side by side terminals of anything are things like light bulbs and motors. Whenever the two terminals of anything, a power pack, terminal tracks, the rails themselves, directly connect, it is a short circuit.
And yes, it would probably be MUCH easier to wire just using the Atlas components and their book on how to hook things up. If you don;t plan to use two power packs, you cna use a different unit called a Connector. There are two terminals on the side of each one, these connect to the DC terminals of your power pack. There are 3 switches on each one, and two terminals with each switch. The two terminals on each switch connect to your terminal tracks. If you need more than 3 switches, additional Connectors just attach to the first one. The Atlas book is called the Complete Atlas Wiring Book,
SUX V R40 RiderOk let me be clear on how this is currently wired starting from the siding to the terminal block.On one side is one terminal rail joiner that has a wire attached to it. The wire goes to one of the screws on the toggle switch. Connected to the same screw is another wire that goes to one position of one half of the terminal block.It is the same for the other terminal rail joiner. Only it connects to the other trail, the other screw at the toggle and then to the other half of the terminal block. And of course the tail joiners connect the 2 sections of track together.
SUX, follow Randy's instructions. Connect one wire from one of the screws on the terminal track to one screw on the toggle switch. Connect another wire from the other screw on the toggle switch to one side of the DC barrier strip. Lastly, connect a third wire from the other screw on the terminal track to the other side of the DC barrier strip.
If a short occurs when a loco crosses the gap to or from the isolated siding, reverse the wires on the terminals on that siding track.
The way you wired it won't work. Remember how a single pole switch works. In the ON position, there is a connect. In the OFF position, there is a disconnect.
i know its a crude drawing..but does this help?
That is how it SHOULD be wired. What he has, from his description, created a short circuit. That's why the "On' position stops everything, and "Off" lets it work - when ON, it's a dead short!
I just don;t see what would make one think this is even remotely correct, A simple on/off switch is nothing more than disconnecting a wire, so if one side of the power supply connects to one switch terminal, and the other side of the power supply connects to the other switch terminal, when the switch is in the on position, it's just like putting a wire between the two dc terminals of the power pack.
Please, get the basic wiring book before you actually break something. So far you've only created some shorts, which hopefully the circuit breaker int he power pack has handled without damage. Consider it being lucky, for now.
rrinker Please, get the basic wiring book before you actually break something. So far you've only created some shorts, which hopefully the circuit breaker int he power pack has handled without damage. Consider it being lucky, for now. --Randy
Here here Randy.
I think I suggested this very thing in two other threads with links even. The OP could have saved himself a lot of time and trouble. Plus Jim was so kind as to draw out a much easier diagram of what should have been wired versus what the OP actually did.
Reminds me of a student I had. After an exam on which he had done poorly he came to me to ask about the questions he had gotten wrong. I tried to explain the the basics and the reasoning behind the questions and he replied "just give me the answers, I'm not interested in learning".
Joe
I just have a hard time dealing with this. I realize not everyone is an electronics engineer, that's why I try to help people. But I think this is the first time we had someone effectively hook the DC and AC outputs of theior power pack together, and install an on/off switch that shorted their power supply. Basic switches and power - I've been playing with that stuff since I was about 5. At 6 or 7, I went down in the mornign before school to see how far my Dad got with setting up the layout that year, ran a train, it dies halfway around. I did some investigating, found the plastic joiners, found some wire, crawled under the layout, and attached it to the terminal track on the back of the layout and bingo, I had trains going all the way around. He was pretty surprised when he got home to find me runnign trains all around the layout he hadn't quite finished wiring.
Just google for some basic circuit tips, don;t really even have to buy the Atlas book, or any other. Here's one:
http://www.1728.org/project2.htm
UPinCT rrinker Please, get the basic wiring book before you actually break something. So far you've only created some shorts, which hopefully the circuit breaker int he power pack has handled without damage. Consider it being lucky, for now. --Randy Here here Randy. I think I suggested this very thing in two other threads with links even. The OP could have saved himself a lot of time and trouble. Plus Jim was so kind as to draw out a much easier diagram of what should have been wired versus what the OP actually did.
UP, Thank you for the kind words. Several other forum members, minus the OP, have also complimented me about the diagram. Perhaps it may help others at some point.
And Randy you have shown the patience of a Saint.
At work, when technical assistance cannot solve a problem, they will escalate calls to me. From conversations with the auto technicians I have come to the following conclusions.
You have basically three groups of technicians.
The “A” techs you rarely hear from. When you do it is usually because something is not covered in the service manual. Or a bulletin has not been issued. These guys are always eager for additional training, read all repair procedures and will work a problem until it is solved. They work well with the "B" techs.
The “B” techs are usually up and coming. They typically need a bit of guidance but will always follow instructions. They appreciate experienced help and learn from it. I enjoy helping them because I know it is not wasted effort.
Sadly we have the “C” techs. These guys rarely read anything. They will jump to step 10 because they think the other 9 steps in a chart are a waste of time. Training is to be avoided because they know everything. You can tell them check for voltage and x and y and they always check at a and b. If the car is under warranty, they throw parts on it like it is birdseed.
I only give credit when advice I am given actually works.
The advice and the crude drawing worked and works well. I just finished wiring it together correctly. Thank you for the advice, I do appreciate it.
I am interested in learning, anything else stated to the contrary is absolutely incorrect. If I didn't want to learn I wouldn't be asking questions.
When I posted this it was late last night I had just gotten done wiring the way it was right before I asked. I posted this thread and went to sleep.
Earlier today I was posting and responding from work, during break/lunch using my smart phone. I did not come home right away to try the advice given and wanted to be absolutely sure I had a clear idea on what I needed to do, before I continued. Perhaps I need to post my timeline and schedule so you know when I will be able to attempt the advice given.
I must say I am a lot more used to AC wiring not DC. I rewired the 110 outlets and switches in my entire house almost 15 years ago and over the years have installed new ceiling fans where none existed before and other hard wired AC powered devices and never had a problem and I am not an electrician. DC wiring is something I am getting used to. Right now I am not really liking Thomas Edison, but Tesla, he's the man!
I have not purchased the book on DC wiring yet yet because frankly I cannot afford it right now. The materials I just finished installing I purchased over a month ago, when I could afford them at the time.
I am starting to get the feeling this may be the wrong forum to continue to seek out help from, by that I mean the MR forums. I say this because I am feeling like some are coming across as snobs. Am I wrong in this assessment? I am honestly beginning to feel like I should simply stop asking questions here and either wing it, keep trying until I figure out what will work or find another source.
If you wired light switches and outlets int eh house, this should be a snap. At this point, with just the motor in the loco and maybe the lights, there's absolutely no difference in wiring AC vs DC. It comes in to play when you start dealing with components that have polarities, like LEDs,
I don;t know of any time with wall siteches and outlets where you run two wires to the same terminal. Even passthroughs on outlets, there's two screws on each side, one set for the hot and one set for neutral. In fact, the pair of screws is connected together (unless you break the tab) in the exact same manner as the two screws across from one another in a terminal strip. The only thing missing in low voltage model railroad wiring is the extra ground wire, think of the two terminals on the power pack as hot and neutral. Putting a wall switch in - the neutral passes through, the two terminals on the switfch get onnected to a cut in the hot. There's no difference here adding an on/off switch to control a siding.
No one is expecting constant updates during the day. The only reason I even posted anything during the day today was because I was working from home. Normally I can check in in the morning before work, and then after I get home I log back in.
I'll agree with Tesla vs Edison, Edison mainly improved other inventions and then aggressively marketed them. Tesla was a true genius.
As for books, you don;t really need books. There are so many videos, pictures, and text online you can browse for free that will have useful things to learn.
SUX V R40 Rider I am starting to get the feeling this may be the wrong forum to continue to seek out help from, by that I mean the MR forums. I say this because I am feeling like some are coming across as snobs. Am I wrong in this assessment? I am honestly beginning to feel like I should simply stop asking questions here and either wing it, keep trying until I figure out what will work or find another source.
I am going to side with SUX on this one. I was surprised to wake up this morning and read all of the disparaging comments, That is very unlike us, especially on the Electronics and DCC forum.
Someone mentioned the student who cranked, "just give me the answers, I'm not interested in learning". That is not SUX. There are a few forum members who just want everyone else to do their work. But, in every instance, SUX has done the work himself, then asked questions when things went wrong.
So, we need to cut some slack.
Am I wrong?
SUX V R40 Rider....I am glad you you were able to get things straightened out. .Now, kick back & run some trains for awhile