MRC Prodigy Advance² vs Ecos(ESU) vs Intelibox(Ullenbrock) vs Viesemann comander

[southernpacificgs4]

I would buy a DCC system but I do not know to choose.

I doubt between these DCC Systems:

MRC Prodigy Advance²( or the UK counterpart, it is the same as MRC but the color is different) versus ECos I(mono chroom) or ECoS 50200(color)(ESU) versus Intelibox(Ullenbrock) versus Viesemann commander

Some advice of the users of these systems?

[rrinker]

 I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that other than a few people here who are REALLY into DCC, you'll be lucky if any of us have even heard of Viesemann, most will know ESU from their Loksound sound decoders but not their DCC systems, and few few may have randomly heard of Uhlenbrock. Most everyone knows MRC - I take it you are in the UK where it's sold as Gaugemaster.

 If between those options, it really comes down to the style of operation you prefer. The MRC is going to be US style DCC, locos addressed by the cab number, no pictures stored in the system. The others being German will follow more European style DCC, where the loco is selected by picture and text stored in the system. In the US we rearely see any of those systems, the primary systems here are MRC, Digitrax, and NCE. Your best bet for comparisons of those systems will probably be a UK modeling forum. From a technical standpoint I'd say all of the Euro systems are better than MRC's. I know ESU in particular has some really nice features, and Uhlenbrock as well - their system works with both Lenz Xpressnet and Digitrax Loconet, and I believe they now have a bridge device that connects the two. I don't know that it's even readily available in the US - there was a dealer web site but it's woefully out of date, and the only other Yhlenbrock info is all in German. ESU is sold here, but mostly just their decoders.

 I know MR has subscribers the world over, but it does seem those from outside the US and Canada are a rather small miniroty in forum participants. A shame really, because while I don't model Euro prototypes, neither does everyone over there, and regardless of the prototpe followed, fine modeling is fine modeling.

               --Randy

 

[john.pickles87]

Hi GS,

From your monica, I'd say UK based modelling US prototype.  I'm same.  If I was modelling continental I'd go for the European makes.  The Gaugemaster PA being a MRC derivative would be better for you modelling state side stuff  the likes of SP with it's multiple lash ups and having button and knob speed control is, I'd say far easier to take to. 

Programing, I've found leaves a lot to be desired, so I use  me laptop running JMRI with a Sprogg connected to a length of Peco(OO & N) as a test track.

Hope this helps, if, I can be of any more assistance e-mail me.

Be in touch.

pick

[southernpacificgs4]

Hello Randy,

I will start some layout next year, but I would do it right from the first time on the electronics.

I stopped with the hobby years, years ago so I missed the transition from DC to DCC so I do not know if a DCC system is good or bad.

So I am lost on the track of DCC, so I read the manuals that I have downloaded and made a top 5.

Iit seems that ECos is a complete system(1st place) and the MRC Prodigy Advanced² is quite simple to learn(ex aequo 1st place), Uhlenbrock also is a complete system(2nd place) and Vieseman somthing between the others(4th place). The advantage of MRC PA²($280.00{+/-216€}) vs Ecos is the price, ECos I is 445€ and the color screen version, EcoS II  is 635€ ($824.50).

For the price(and to learn DCC) I would choose MRC but I am affraid that if I invest in the MRC that It will not be possible to use the handheld control of the MRC even with the Loconet converter with the ECoS(Ecos has no small handheld controllers), but on the other hand I think that the ECoS is more completer and can be used with a computer(if I ever will understand computer logics) and I think MRC is not compatible with a computer(no computer bus) and modelrailroad computer software(maybe I am wrong).

I understand quite well some electronics(as I told on an other posting) I made my block system for my old DC layout; home made; but DCC is really new for me.

I would it have simple but I am a little affraid of using computers for steering my layout, some people say that everyting with a computer and steering a modelrailroad is much easyer.

[john.pickles87]

Hi SP,

As I was upgrading my laptop to W7 this afternoon I had a play with me new Note 2 and found a post from you asking if I was UK based.  Right, while answering this it disappeared, no idea where it got to so this is the back up.

I do live on the wrong side of the pond.  Just off Jn12 of the M65 in East Lancs been modeling that long now it sometimes hurts, if you are in this neck of the woods and I can help in any way drop me a line on [e-mail] and we can swap details.  

I started way back with Double O 3 rail using GEM track.  Started US about 25yrs ago, been doing DCC about 10yrs back when sound started raising it's head over here.  As I started this reply I saw you you'd mentioned about computer control?  Ouch way over my head and I'm a bit past it to try the likes now.  I use the laptop and JMRI purely for programing the likes of Cab addresses, lighting and consists.

Oh ye, and I find out far more from Randy, Crandel and the other good folks on the forums.

Be in touch.

pick.

[rrinker]

 MRC does have a computer interface, the problem is, it's proprietary and is limited to their own software. You can;t use the wonderful and free JMRI, or a commercial program like RR&Co with it. Digitrax and NCE are definitely int he minority outside the US, but both are fully supported by JMRI and other software, and have the north american style of operation. You can always go really out there and pick up the SPROG (made int he UK), but all your throttles would then be through JMRI. There's on-screen throttles, but if you have an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad or any of a wide variety of Android devices, there is WiThrottle (for Apple) or Engine Driver (Android) that lets you use your phone/tablet as a wireless throttle.

 The biggest issue with Digitrax or NCE is what to do if something needs repair, shipping back to the US isn't cheap. However, I will say that int he 11 years I've had my Digitrax equipment, nothing has ever broken.

 And if you lean towards DIY at all, there's always MERG - they have all the DCC bits from command station to signal controllers. Being an EE myself I like to play around a bit, which is a big part of why I went with Digitrax. I have a couple of devices I purchased as bare boards from Hans DeLoof in the Netherlands connected up to my system, one is the computer interface and the other is an i/o board for signals or switch inputs or whatever. It's all managed via JMRI. I don;t have my train operation automated, not really interested in standing there and watching the computer drive the trains, but I can use JMRI as a virtual control panel, a programming aid (nice drop down menus and check boxes instead of paging through manuals trying to figure out CV values), or a dispatcher panel.

              --Randy

 

[southernpacificgs4]

Hoi Randy,

Thanks for t information.

My question was if the MRC PA² can be used in a computer setting for running an layout automaticly or semi-automaticly?(I found out they have an own computer program to set the settings of the decoders)

And I found in the downloaded manual of the ECoS that If you have already a DCC system(ex: Roco multi maus, etc..) you can conect it to the ECoS and stil use the old DCC system via the ECoS and using the ECos at the same time(both together)

 

[rrinker]

 MRC's program has an on-screen throttle to run trains, but there's no provisions for any automation, as the system has no provision for any sort of detection. You'd have to parallel a second system with block detection, and then there's no way to get the information to the MRC computer app. If you could use JMRI, it would work, but you can't. JMRI can easily talk to multiple systems at once. It's somewhat common to use, say NCE to drive the trains, but since their control bus isn;t really capable of supporting enough block detection for more than a trivial layout, another system, such as Digitrax, is set up to run the block detection and signalling. JMRI communicates to both at the saem time.

            --Randy

 

[Mark R.]

I have the ESU EcoS system, and it's mind numbing what it can do .... I haven't even scratched the surface of the thing yet. ESU has a module you connect to the EcoS that allows you to use Digi-Trax throttles directly with the system without requiring a Digi-Trax command station. So if your buddies have Digi-Trax throttles, they can bring them over and use them on your system.

The EcoS also has a "sniffer" port, that allows you to connect ANY DCC system to it and run it in unison with the EcoS controller. There is also up to 16 screens that can be configured with your track plan(s) for controlling turnouts and signal - obviously requiring the use of their detector modules.

Shuttle trains can also be configured utilizing their detector modules to traverse a predetermined route with timed layovers. The system can also be connected to your ethernet port on your computer - which I haven't gotten that far yet, to see what all it can do. If you have a wireless router, there are even apps (throttles) available to make your iphone into a wireless throttle.

The only thing I don't care for is there own wireless throttles. I have two of them and don't really care for how they feel. While very intuitive with the large screen, they reminf me more of a handheld video game as opposed to a train throttle. One handed operation is almost impossible. Will probably look into the Digi-Trax converter as a lot of local guys use Digi-Trax, so they can just bring their throttles over to operate.

Mark. 

[southernpacificgs4]

I have 2 questions:

1.) Is a NCE Power Cab a good way to start with DCC?

2.) Has the NCE Power Cab a fast clock?

 

[locoi1sa]

southernpacificgs4

1.) Is a NCE Power Cab a good way to start with DCC?

2.) Has the NCE Power Cab a fast clock?

1. Yes

2. Yes. And it has a built in amp meter too.

 From what I have seen of the Echos system is amazing. Quite expensive on this side of the pond as you would say. With the addition of the add on module for other makes of throttles is something that more DCC manufactures should consider. Not only is there locomotive pictures but you can use your pictures instead of the generic ones in the system. Motorized throttle knobs is something that is not considered even on the most advanced systems. When selecting an already running locomotive the throttle advances to the last set speed . If I had unlimited hobby dollars I would consider the Echos system for my home layout.

  I see that you did not mention Lenz. There are many Lenz users on your side of the pond. My club uses Lenz and it is a very good and capable system. I love the feel of my LH90 engineers throttle. The large knob and rugged toggle switch fits my paws better then any other throttle I have used.

        Pete