Dear Friends
I'm trying to build an HO layout for my four-year-old son and am using DCC with a Zephyr Xtra. The layout is in my mother's basement, not ours. Yesterday I soldered feeder wires to 12 points around the two ovals. All of these wires go to a 12-position power distribution block, and there's a pair of wires going from the power distribution block to the Zephyr.
My test locomotive was my son's MTH SD70M-2. It worked fine for a few minutes and then wouldn't work at all. I didn't have another locomotive to use for testing at the moment. I don't know if I've damaged the engine or it's track wiring that's causing the problem (or maybe both).
I understand that most DCC wiring is done differently, but I thought this might be a fast way to get the track operational.
Here's a watch?v=qUHxoRsO 3A&feature=plcp of the locomotive running on the track.
My first question is, can a DCC layout be wired in this configuration (feeders to power distribution block)? Secondly, can I use a multimeter to check current around the track? I don't have a multimeter, but I'm willing to buy one if it'll help get this track running.
Thank you very much for your help.
--Jaddie
Hiya Jaddie,
Looks like this is (rough guess) a 5x9, or otherwise a small layout. I'll watch the video in a minute (and add edits).
For now -- disconnect ALL feeders, and connect ONE (1) pair. That'll allow you to make sure everything works. Once you get to that point, connect feeders one pair at a time, until all 12 pairs are connected, you should still be able to operate without any trouble.
edit --> where did the locomotive stall out? There aren't any reverse loops, or any tricky places that wiring would need to be special...
did the Zephyr show any faults? (short, etc) or things "just stopped"?
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
First thing I'd do is make sure that you don't have anything metallic laying across the track.
I see no reason why you cannot have the railroad wired as you do. The "usual" way would be to have a pair of bus wires wires running around from which you'd tap off the track feeds. All you did was replace the bus wires with the distribution block.
Yes, get yourself the most inexpensive multimeter you can find. But you want to do is check for voltage between the pairs of rails. You can also check the voltage out of the Zepher across the two wires that connect the Zepher to the distribution block.
I assume that you have clean track and clean wheels on the engine.
If you move the loco from where it stopped back to an area where it was running, does it restart, or is it totally dead?
Your wiring method should be fine, assuming you've used a large enough gauge of wire. The "conventional wisdom" is to use #14 or #12 wire for the track bus. (In AWG, smaller numbers are thicker wires.) I personally use #18 wire for my track bus. Then, you can use a much smaller wire for your feeders, like #22 or so.
The DCC signal on the track is a modulated square wave. It's not DC, and it's really not AC, either. But, to a multimeter, it looks enough like AC that it will work. You will probably see 10-14 volts AC across the rails when things are working right. If you see nothing, disconnect everything at the output of the Zephyr and measure the voltage there.
I don't have a Zephyr, so I don't know that system, but could you have activated the "Emergency Stop" or whatever Digitrax calls it? Some DCC systems have a shutdown to kill all voltage to the track while leaving the system running. There's another key sequence to restore power. If you did this, you would see the symptoms you've described.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thanks a bunch for your suggestions. I appreciate that you took time out of your days to answer the question of someone who has far less understanding about model railroading than you.
My plan is to get a multimeter at Walmart before I pick up my son at preschool, try to learn how to use it (can I check voltage of wires without stripping away the insulation?), check voltage around the track, then disconnect all the feeders until I find the problem.
The Zephyr doesn't show any problem. And when I lay a screwdriver across the track, I get the expected overload warning.
I hope it's not the MTH loco. The Easter Bunny gave up lots of carrots for that one.
(Not being able to immediately try your suggestions is one big disadvantage of having a layout that isn't at my home. However, my mother has a 2500-square-foot basement could be home to a future monster layout if my son's interest holds up. He's been very interested in trains since he was about sixteen months old.)
JaddieMy plan is to get a multimeter at Walmart before I pick up my son at preschool, try to learn how to use it (can I check voltage of wires without stripping away the insulation?), check voltage around the track, then disconnect all the feeders until I find the problem.
Yes, you would have to strip the insulation from the wires if you have no other place to put the meter probes. However, I'm assuming that the distribution blocks have some sort of screw terminals. All you need to do is put the meter probes on the tops of the screw terminals. Then check across the rails at various locations around the railroad. You can put the loco on the track and check in front of and in back of it. If you have voltage and no engine movement, then you have a loco issue, not a track wiring issue.
On the meter use the AC volts scale most appropriate to the voltage you expect to see. The settings on the meter will vary by brand, but the cheap meters I have (from Harbor Freight) have a most appropriate range of 200 volts (I believe without looking at it).
You have track power, if you get a short indication on the Zephyr when shorting the rails. However there is no guarantee is it fully functional. A meter is definitely a help. The Cheap Harbor Freight one is plenty adequate for anything you'd ever need on a model railroad, there's no reason to spend a fortune. They are $5 or less. There's a 20V AC range that is fine for most HO and smaller scale DCC (Zephyr should read about 12.5 volts or so). There is also an alternative process to measure track voltage with Digitrax, and that is to use a DC range, again the 20V setting is probabl best, and measure DC volts between the Rail A terminal and the Ground terminal. ANd then Rail B and Ground. Ignore the polarity, or reverse the probes for the one that gets the - reading, but the numeric portion should be identical or at least within a tiny amount, like .1 volt. A large difference indcates either you have Address 00 select and set for some speed, or a problem with the unit. To make sure, select address 00 and set the speed control to stop and the direction switch to the middle 'brake' position and recheck. If it's still significantly different, you Zephyr needs a vacation to Florida for repairs.
If all this checks out, then test the voltage at various spots around the layout - with 12 sets of feeders on a layout that size, it should be fine., and there be equal voltages at all points around the layout. Check both right at the feeder connections and in betwene two sets of feeders, if there is a loss of power between where the feeders connect, check the track joints and make sure everything is secure.
That appears to be a double crossover in the near side of the layout? What brand is that? It could be that it needs some additional wiring - however if it was not correct it would cause a short same as putting a screwdriver across the rails. If that's not happening - that's not the problem, although there may be an additional problem of not getting power through it, but that wouldn;t cause the loco to stop elsewhere on the layout.
And one last thing, is the loco stopping, then starting up again, the stopping, etc? If so, you may simply have selected it more than once on the Zephyr and the throttles are 'fighting' one another. In the back of the Zephyr manual it talks about Op Switches - OpSw 39 is the one you want, which will reset the Zephyr to defaults. Give that a try and see if that clears up the problem. To prevent this from happening, before selecting another loco, or when shutting off, make sure you bring the loco to a stop, and also put the direction switch in the middle brake position. Then press Loco, and then Exit. Now shut everything off, or go through the selection process for a different loco.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I agree with the others, there should be nothing wrong with the basic scheme of feeders to a power distribution block. The power distribution block basically becomes what others call the bus. I ran this configuration for years with no problems before putting in a certifiable bus type system. I believe your problem has to be something else.
I also agree that Harbor Freight has a great multi-meter they sell for $4.99 to $1.99 depending if you catch a sale or a coupon for it.
First thing that I would check is the MTH manual to see how to "reset" the locomotive. MTH has their own DCS command control system that sometimes confuses the locomotive. If you can do a manual "reset" and see if it works it would eliminate the element from the trouble shooting process.
P.S. For testing the power to the track set the meter to volts AC or ACV.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you for replying. I hope I can repay you for your kindness.
As it turns out, it wasn't the track. That track has 12.2 volts all around it, even at the ends of the three sidings.
It was the MTH loco. I phoned MTH and after some brief troubleshooting George, an MTH tech, suggested that I ship the loco to them for a fix. I'm sort of in a hurry to get things running, so I suggested that I take the loco to my local train store, TrainMaster Models. Scott's one of or the technician at TrainMaster and he had that loco fixed in less than a minute. He simply reassigned the loco's address and all was well. That was US$5 well-spent.
(TrainMaster Models is a railfan's Promised Land, and I heartily suggest stopping by in person if you're within an hour of Buford, Georgia, or if you happen to pass through Buford. Buford is located approximately thirty-five miles northeast of Atlanta. A Norfolk Southern mainline is right in front of the store. The place even has a play area for kids featuring three wooden railway tables.)
Randy, that's fantastic insight you offered about the starting and stopping. Yes, the MTH loco did that, as did Diesel, an HO Thomas engine. They were both assigned address 03. I thought everything would be fine so long as they didn't run together. Definitely not so. But now that Scott changed the SD70's address to 09, it runs smoothly--at least regarding the engine itself.
I inadvertently pulled some wires out of one of my Tortoise switches, and in the process of trying to resolder it, I pulled another wire out of an adjacent Tortoise. I think those little contact slots/patches could be a lot more user friendly. I ordered some edge connectors from Digi-Key that should make short work of getting the four switches for the double crossover working again.
It's a Walthers/Shinohara double crossover and I don't have it wired specially. In fact, it's not even wired at its four corners. It's nearest feeders are several inches to about three feet away, and the multimeter shows 12.2 volts all over the piece.
The next problem I have to tackle is smoothing out the track. It's smooth side to side but not up and down. There's at least one spot in which rollingstock uncouples from the engine. The incline would've been smooth, but my son broke it apart when it was initially pinned down to the layout, and I had to piece it back together.
Thanks again for your help. It means a lot to me.
Jaddie
I also live in GA, and (time and money permitting) I also frequent TrainMaster. Scott is very knowledgeable and helpful. The whole staff is, come to think of it. I haven't been in recently due to $$$ constraints - my work always slows down in summer months - but I'm hoping to be in more often now.
Assuming the double crossover was recently purchased, and not NOS (New Old Stock), the package should have been labeled "DCC friendly" or similar. No special wiring would be required, the track is insulated and internally wired for you. When buying Walthers/Shinohara track, BE SURE to get packages marked DCC friendly, their older trackage was "power routing", and will need special measures taken when being laid and wired. I wouldn't expect to see these in the shop, unless they acquired some from someone's old collection.
If you want to connect with another (fairly) local modeler, feel free to send me an IM.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
The loco probably just needed a reset. To reset those, you select address 55, then enter Ops Mode programming and set CV55 to 55. This will reset the address to 3 as well as everything else, s only do this if it acts up again. If it keeps acting up, it may be a bad capacitor, they use a supercapacitor to save the settings when the power is off.
As for the Tortoises - you can put the wires through the holes from the back side (without the copper strips), bend it over, and solder it. This takes some of the strain off the solder joint. Even better is to solder short lengths of wire and connect to an 8 pin terminal strip at the bench before installing, then all you need to do is screw on the wires from the control panel, not solder under the layout.