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A Review of Railpro

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A Review of Railpro
Posted by K-Pack on Monday, September 10, 2012 10:18 AM

Hi guys,

First post here on this forum.  A while back I was looking into Ring Engineering's Railpro system and used some posts on here to help make my decision.  I've had the system for a few months now and can now offer some feedback that I hope will be helpful to people here.  First, a little background on my situation...I have no home layout, around 8-10 locomotives, only half with DCC decoders.  The club uses Digitrax DCC that for the most part works well.  We have issues if there are many trains running at the same time where locos become deaddressed or show up on someone else's throttle randomly.  That became rather frustrating to me, as well as the whole process of speed matching.  I decided that I was in a unique position to test the new Railpro system.

Here is my review based on my limited experience with it.  This will probably change as I have more time to mess around with it and install it in more locomotives

  • The controller is easy to hold, easy to use.  I can use it one-handed and without looking at it if need be.  This of course depends on the size of your hands....I can reach the direction and horn buttons one-handed without looking, and my hands aren't quite big enough to 'palm' a basketball.  The only functions I really use while the train is moving are direction, horn and speed, all of which can be pretty easily reached with a thumb.
  • The GUI is simple and intuitive.  Help topics are available on every page if you have a question
  • The touch sensitivity is good, not exactly like an Iphone or Kindle.  Sometimes it take a tiny bit of pressure to register, whereas an Iphone or Kindle registers even the smallest brush of your finger.  This is actually a good thing so you don't accidently activate something you don't want to.
  • Battery life on the handheld is acceptable....somewhere around 10-12 hours on low brightness.  It does take a long time to charge though.  Just leave it overnight.
  • Handheld turns on in less than a second.  I believe it can do this because it is constantly in a 'suspend' mode.  I'm not sure it ever turns completely off.  Very handy to have it start that fast.
  • Loading of files onto the handheld from the internet can take some time for the larger files (updates, prime mover sounds).  It can take 15-20 minutes for the large ones.  Tim at Ring Engineering says this may change to become more streamlined in the future.  I do wish it was a bit quicker here.  Updating the handheld with larger files (software updates are the main culprits) can drain the battery.
  • Locomotive modules compared to drop-in replacement sound boards: significantly shorter in dimension, same width, thicker in height.  The thickness makes installation somewhat tricky.  I installed a module into an Atlas B40-8, Athearn GP35, and an Athearn GP50.  The Athearns required some ingenuity to fit correctly due to the large size of the open frame motors.  Simply plugging it into a 9 pin harness is pretty straightforward.  My space issues were complicated by the fact that my locos have LEDs for all the lights and the resistors can take up precious space.
  • The sound is good.  The horns sound better to me than Tsunamis did.  The prime movers sound nice, as well as the startup and shutdown.  The bell is bit loud for my taste, even turned all the way down to 20% volume.  Whether or not you like the prime mover sounds will come down to individual preference....there are subtle differences between the same prime mover for Tsunami, Loksound, QSI, Railpro, etc.  Like I said, it sounds good to me.  I am using Railmaster speakers in all 3 locos.  The self-enclosed DS-1436 sounds better than the 20mm high bass speaker I installed.  Tim says sounds are continually being made and added.  They plan to add compressor, dynamic brake, and radiator fans in the future as well as additional horns and prime movers.
  • Adding pics of the locomotives to the module is quick and easy.  I sent Tim my pictures and he had them back within hours.  They look good and are easy to install.  He is not a stickler for only converting one pic per locomotive....I believe he only wrote that in there to cover himself.  If Railpro became wildly popular and people were sending him picture conversion requests like crazy, obviously he would only have time to convert one pic per loco.  Just my 2 cents there.  I have no issues with it.
  • Adding new effects/sounds/files for download is an ongoing thing and makes Railpro highly upgradeable and customizable.  I sent Tim an email requesting a single strobe light effect with a proto video as an example.  He shot me back an email 5 minutes later saying it was posted to the website and ready to download.  Light effects are easy to create, sounds take a bit longer.  
  • Changing settings on a loco is easy and quick, and can be done in real time.  You can change sound levels, starting/max power, momentum while it's moving.  You do have to stop the locomotive and turn all sounds off in order to save the settings and make it permanent.  The one setting that all locomotives need in order to consist is the Max Motor Load.  It's automatic and quick.
  • Consisting: It works well overall.  I've had problems with one locomotive, but I think it's an isolated thing.  This particular loco has given me problems before....it's an Athearn RTR and had a rough time with a Tsunami installed it it.  With the Tsunami one motor got destroyed, and after replacing that with a new one, it ran alright until the Tsunami started smoking.  So my guess is that it needs to be repowered and the drivetrain worked on.  I am able to consist an Atlas and a 25 yr-old blue box Athearn without any real issues.  I do need to play around with the start and max speeds a little on both of those to completely dial them in.  It is pretty cool to see them load sharing while pulling a long, heavy train.  The locomotives will communicate with each other and will pull harder as necessary.
  • One thing to keep in mind is that load sharing in Railpro is not equivalent to speed matching in DCC.  Railpro's system is based on matching the pulling power/motor draw and not speeds.  If you uncouple the locomotives, they do not run at the same speed.  If you couple them you can see how they communicate to share the load.  This works much better if the locos are attached to a train.  The train adds weight and tension to the couplers and allows the load sharing to be much more obvious.  As I said, I'm still messing around with it to figure out how it works with different brands of locomotives.
  • Motor control is excellent.  The Atlas had a TCS in it before can could crawl along at a barely perceptible pace without any shudder.  Railpro allows it to do the same....not quite as smoothly as TCS but still very smooth and VERY slowly. 
  • The real-time monitoring is awesome.  I can check any locomotive and see the amount of power the motor is drawing, the track voltage (which is great on the club layout....I've already discovered a couple sections that need additional feeders due to voltage drop), and module temperature.  The fault reporting is also great.  If something happens with any of the above it let's you know.
  • Customer service is the best I've seen.  I've always had very good customer service from all DCC manufacturers that I've dealt with, but Ring Engineering has gone the extra mile to answer questions and make sure I'm satisfied.

These are my preliminary impressions.  As I use it more I plan on creating some videos to help explain/show some of the things I'm talking about.  I'm happy with the system and really enjoy using it.

That being said, I understand that Railpro is not for everyone.  I wouldn't expect someone who is happy with DCC or has lots of money invested in it to want to switch.  It is yet another great option for control out of many other great options.  It works great for my situation because I do not have a lot of locos to switch over and I do not have a home layout.  Railpro allows me to run at the club while avoiding their programming issues.  No one at our club consists their locos to each other's so not being able to control the DCC locos is not a problem.  

To sum it up Railpro is a great control scheme and lots of fun to use.  It's not a 'DCC-Killer', as DCC is still a wonderful control scheme IMO.  It is however a very viable option for those just starting out or who have a smaller collection.  Hopefully this answer some questions that people have.  I'll keep messing with it and make some videos.

Thanks,

Kevin

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  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted by JoeinPA on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 6:50 AM

Thanks for the review Kevin. I've been following the RailPro system for a while and it's good to see a complete review from someone who has actually installed and used the system.  Please make updates as your experience with the system continues.

Joe

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Posted by watson on Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:52 PM

Kevin, now that you have had the Rail Pro system for awhile would you recommend it to everyone. I am starting out fresh and have no other system to add to or delete.  Frank

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Posted by K-Pack on Thursday, October 24, 2013 4:05 PM

Watson - I've had it now for over a year and am very happy with my decision.  Tim at Ring Engineering is excellent to correspond with if you have any questions or concerns about the products.  I recommend giving him a call or shoot him an email.  Customer service at RE is quite possibly the best I've seen.

My experience so far with Railpro has been very positive.  I have installed it in a number of locomotives ranging from vintage Blue Box, to Athearn RTR, to Broadway Limited, Genesis, Atlas, and Kato.  Most of the installs were with the older LM-1 module, which required some planning to get to fit properly in shorter 4-axle hood units.  The new LM-2 module makes it easier, as it is much smaller than the old module.  The best thing about Railpro for me is the ability to consist any locomotive to each other in any configuration.  Speed matching was my biggest pet peeve with DCC, and this system solved that problem for me.

Control is smooth, the locomotives respond instantly and fluidly.  I like the interface and the controller.  It is on the large size, but I have not found it to be a problem using it one-handed, and I can also control locomotives and basic functions without looking at it.  It would be nice to have a safety strap on it, but that would get in the way of putting it down on the layout or benchwork.  

Ring Engineering is very interested in improving Railpro.  All Railpro products can be upgraded with new software, patches, etc from the website.  They are constantly providing new software updates for the locomotive modules, controller, power supply, etc.  Most of these improve background things (eg stability) but some of the recent ones have added new functionality to the controller/modules.  The sound library is still small, but is growing.  Recently added prime mover sounds include the EMD 567 and GEVO.  Tim is open to user-recorded sounds, as long as the recorder is okay with the sounds being distributed to all Railpro users.  Basically the sound library is able to expand to whatever sounds are either created by RE or submitted by users.  I really like the fact that I can add/delete any file from the locomotive modules and customize everything about them.

I also picked up their power supply (the PWR-75, the larger of the two power supplies) and it works perfectly.  I have not tried their accessory modules or the smaller power supply.  Also, I have the old model of the controller and have not tried the new model.  The only differences between them are the newer one charges quicker, has more internal storage, a faster processor, and it is $100 less expensive.

I have nothing against DCC, in fact I recognize it is capable of doing some pretty involved things.  However, after switching from DCC to Railpro I haven't ever felt the need to look back.  I've thoroughly enjoyed Railpro and would recommend it.  If you can find someone who has it near you it may be worth checking out.  Otherwise I know that if you buy from the Ring Engineering website, you have a 30 trial period.  

Any other questions, feel free to ask.

-Kevin

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Posted by watson on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 12:04 PM

Kevin, any viedo on the use of the Railpro set up. I realize it has been a long time since I posted the original question. I still am looking at the Railpro setup. Thanks Watson

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Posted by K-Pack on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:00 AM

Watson - Yes, I do have a few videos I've made regarding use of Railpro.  This first one was made a few years ago after I first got it.  It gives a general idea of what the system is.  Features have changed a bit since this video, but you get the idea:

This next video shows a quick installation, and then how to initially set up the basic functions on a module.

Another quick video showing some of the stock Railpro sounds.  

I've never posted videos on this forum before so hopefully they work.

-Kevin

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:19 AM

In a nut shell, what is RailPro and what it is used for.  That would be a helpful so that we have a clue before diving into the details of your review!

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by K-Pack on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:37 AM

riogrande5761

In a nut shell, what is RailPro and what it is used for.  That would be a helpful so that we have a clue before diving into the details of your review!

 

 

Sure, no problem.  Railpro is a control system made by Ring Engineering, the company who makes the HO scale EOT devices.  It was designed from the ground up to provide the user with a pretty straightforward and simple way to control model trains.  It is NOT DCC and does not use CV's or any of the old code.  It does however utilize the NMRA 9-pin plug with standard wire colors for easy of installation.

The system is radio controlled, meaning that commands are sent directly from the controller to the locomotives through the air.  Power is supplied through the rails, but battery power can be used if you can find a battery small enough to work (you'll also need a battery charging circuit if you are wanting to go this route).  Railpro power supplies output 14.2 regulated DC, but the locomotives can be used on DCC-powered track without a problem.  Note that the locomotives will not respond to DCC commands.  

Each Railpro component has direct radio which means they can all send back information to the controller.  This allows the user to see in real time status on the locomotives, power supplies, accessories, etc.  Even more important, it allows hassle-free MU consisting.  The locomotives send back real-time info on their load and speed, and all other locomotives in the consist adjust accordingly so that all locomotives equally share the load.  I find it much easier than trying to speed match with DCC.

All Railpro products can be updated with new software.  This means new features can be added, new sounds, new functions, etc.  It's pretty straightforward.  

A little more than a nutshell there, but hopefully that gives you a basic idea of what it is.

-Kevin

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Posted by watson on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 10:01 AM

thanks for the viedo on Railpro. Looks like the setup I could use. One last question, whats your opion on the battery, and the recharging time. So far that is the only thing about this controller that bothers me. Thanks again for the viedo, nice job. Watson.

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Posted by K-Pack on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 10:39 AM

I have the old (1st gen) version of the controller and the batteries take a while to charge...probably close to 2 hours or more if it's completely dead.  The 2nd gen controller charges about twice as fast from what I understand.  Battery life is dependant on what you are doing.  Just running trains will make it last for quite a while.  If you are loading large sound files (prime movers for example) the battery will drain much quicker.  I normally plug my controller in once a week to top off the battery and keep it ready to go.

-Kevin

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 3:37 PM

Thanks for the summary.  Looks like a step in the direction of R/C for trains.  Interesting.  I've already invested into a Digitrax DCC system but some may find Rail-Pro good for them!

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by dcfixer on Thursday, January 15, 2015 1:57 PM

Just wanted to chime in on the RE customer support.  It is the best I have ever seen, also.  I have an old LM-1 that just would not update to REV 1-09 (known issue). Spent a few hours trying.  I finally wrote RE support, and 2 hours later I get a phone call from Tim.  He's "concerned that I'm spending too much time on this problem, and not having fun...". LOL, unbelievable!   He gives me some detailed tips/instructions over the phone that had worked for others with the problem, but my LM-1 wouldn't budge.  I sent it in, and got it back in less than 2 weeks, no charge.

FRPF:  Ring is working on software that will allow us to make our own pictures and sound files.Big SmileBig Smile  He told me in November, and he was hoping to have it out by Xmas.  Didn't make it.  He did ask me at the time if I wanted to beta test, but I was just too busy with the video, museum and club commitments.  So, I don't think it will be long now, RP fans. I got a UP E8 horn file that I am dying to use.

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Posted by K-Pack on Thursday, January 15, 2015 3:16 PM

DC, indeed it shouldn't be much longer before the software is released.  I've been doing some beta testing on it for the past several months and have helped eliminate some bugs and tweak things.  It is a ton of fun to record your own sounds, edit them, and load them onto your locomotives.  It opens a whole new realm of prototype modeling for me.  The ability to load your own locomotive pictures is also very nice.  Basically the new program puts all the software updating, custom file making/loading, and new features all in one package.  

The basic program is pretty much done, I think Ring is just wrapping up loose ends and figuring out some logistical things.  Hopefully within a month or two it'll be released.

-Kevin

  • Member since
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  • From: South east Michigan
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Posted by bjdukert on Friday, January 23, 2015 2:06 PM

Kevin and DC     Did you buy your systems from Tim or from someone else and I take it Tim doesn't mind answering questions if you don't buy it from him.

  I am in the process of putting up another layout because we sold our house and are now in a condo and I have a Lenz system now.   I saw another review on the Rail Pro and it looks like it is what I am looking for.   Not as confusing or as much to do as there is with DCC.

Duke

"Don't take a wooden nickel,because it isn't worth a dime" by my Dad

"There are only 3 things you need out of life:A gentle grade,the wind in your face,and cinders in your hair.....But keep an eye on the water glass!" Jack Evans

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Posted by K-Pack on Friday, January 23, 2015 2:59 PM

Duke - You can buy the system from places like Yankee Dabbler and Traintek LLC.  The cost is lower than buying direct.  I've bought all my stuff from Yankee Dabbler and have never had any issues.  Good prices, good service.

Tim is happy to answer any questions you may have regardless of whether or not you bought the system from him or not.  He usually will get back to you within a day.  Other Railpro users, like myself, are happy to answer what we can as well.

-Kevin

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Posted by bjdukert on Friday, January 23, 2015 10:32 PM

Kevin    That is where I was thinking of buying it and thanks for getting back to me.    I am thinking I will be ready to get one in about a month,maybe sooner.

Duke

"Don't take a wooden nickel,because it isn't worth a dime" by my Dad

"There are only 3 things you need out of life:A gentle grade,the wind in your face,and cinders in your hair.....But keep an eye on the water glass!" Jack Evans

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Posted by selector on Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:43 PM

For me, the single greatest bug in DCC ops is dropout due to electrical contact between the various running surfaces or wipers.  If DCC had a quick, effective, and cheap way to get locomotives across small gaps or bad sections, assuming wipers were in good condition across locomotives, it would solve my #1 aggravation.  I wouldn't contemplate another system unless they could solve that problem, one that even Ring Engineering doesn't seem to have tackled as of yet.

Or....have I missed something?

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 24, 2015 3:32 PM

 See what happens when I build a really big layout, but power dropouts have never been an issue for me.

 The next stage is on-board batteries. With Li-ion batteries like now being used in electric motor RC planes and helicopters, there's enough energy density to do it, in HO, at least in larger size locos. The key will be having sufficient on board battery capacity for a loco to complete a typical run - 15 minutes may be OK when flying an airplane, but we need more than 15 minutes per charge for running trains. I still say the key is a combination of both. Power the rails where there are no issues - like nice straigh tangent track, don;t even bother power wyes and reverse loops. Besides the battery, there is also a charging system as part of the on board circuitry. While the train runs on the plain simple track, it is charging the battery, or at least not discharging it, then when it goes into the more complext areas where power is left off for simplicity in wiring, it runs off the battery. So while the loco may be on the move for an hour or two, it may only need to use battery power for 10-15 minutes of that.

 Of course, keep alives for DCC are getting there. With 20-30 seconds of power after loss of contact - if that can't get over your dead spot, you have some serious problems somewhere.

                     --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by KEVIN BROUSE on Saturday, January 24, 2015 3:42 PM

I just completed my first install of a LM-2S in about 30 minutes.  The first time I also opened up a Kato locomotive and I used an 8-pin to. JST plug.  I don't have sound in the locomotive yet thinking about an iPhone or sugar cube speaker.  I laid down an oval with snap-track (no layout yet) and hooked up the starter kit and I had the locomotive up and running in just over an hour.  It was really simple and now I just need to get some more locomotives up and going or start a layout.

Kevin

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Posted by K-Pack on Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:34 PM

Selector - Indeed, that is an aggravation that we all face.  That is, unless one is using onboard battery power.  The thing that Railpro does differently is it takes the control signal out of the rails and puts it in the air.  The rails carry power only.  You can still get drop-outs...I do.  It happens when the track is dirty or on locos where the pickup is questionable.  It will happen more if you are running sound.  I almost never have a drop-out when the sound is off.  So yes, it is still something that we struggle with, and it'll continue to be that way as long as power is in the rails.

Railpro doesn't care where the power comes from.  You could use battery power if you wanted...I know some users already do that.  I believe you need to place a charging circuit or similar between that and the Railpro module.  I know that Ring Engineering is considering making their own circuitry and batteries at some point.  Right now though, they feel that battery technology is not quite where it needs to be to make it easily accessible in our hobby.  I tend to agree with them.

 

Randy - Do you mean LiPo instead of Li-ion?  I might have it wrong but I thought the R/C hobbies were moving to LiPo.

Batteries have gotten smaller, which is great.  However, most are still too big to easily fit in a standard HO scale hood unit. It would be near impossible to fit alongside a good speaker, decoder/module, wires and resistors for lights, etc.  In addition you'll need a way to charge the battery as well.  LiPo's are very sensitive from what I understand, and require special chargers to charge them correctly (so I'm not sure if charging through the track would work?).  Without that you run the very real risk of damaging the battery, which can then quickly escalate into a full-on fire.  I've seen pictures of the aftermath and it is not good.  To be safe, LiPo's should be charged in fireproof containers, and under constant supervision...meaning you need to be present while it's charging.  I believe if they discharge too much or are charged too much there is also the risk of damage and fire.  All in all it isn't really something that I'm excited about.  Technology always advances and I'm sure it won't be long before many of these issues are worked out.  I do believe battery power would be great....just maybe not yet for me.

I'm not an expert on batteries so take what I said with a grain of salt.  I spent some time over at some R/C boards learning about some of the issues back when I was considering trying LiPo.  After some research I decided now was not the time.  I recommend anyone interested in battery power to research and see if it will work for them.

 

I'd ask that if people want to discuss batteries further, apart from the Railpro discussion, that we make another thread.  I'd like to keep this thread on topic about Railpro.

 

-Kevin

 

 

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, January 25, 2015 11:16 AM

 Yes, I meant LiPo. They can be touchy on recharge, but the circuits to charge them safely are small, simple, and well known. Tam Valley DRS and NWSL Stanton both have battery options, as far as I know, only the Stanton has a recharge from the rails option at the moment.

               --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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