I have installed about 10 DCC controllers in plastic models and 2 with sound so I know the process, electronically and even a good bit physically of what to do.
I have just acquired the HOn3, K-28 loco made by Sunset in the pix below. It has a can motor and what appears to be a modified gearing. Perhaps by NWSL? It also has no lighting whatsoever!
Needless to say, It is fabulously painted and weathered. I got this as great buy off e-bay.
I am totally spoiled by the Blackstone models sight and sound of both the C-19 and K-27's that I already own and just can't accept a non-DCC and non-sound HOn3 loco trundling around my narrow gauge layout. Thus, I have picked up the Tsunami narrow gauge sound DCC controller and a suitable speaker to install in this K-28.
I have a milling machine and lathe and know how to use them. I realize that I will have to cut the bottom of the tender open, (mill), to create the needed sound baffle for the speaker. The thought really scares me. I have had no problems gouging cutting ripping and adjusting the plastic carcasses in the past, but this seems different and daunting. (Probably due to the price of the model and the realization that all mistakes are forever)
I also figure I will have to bore out tiny holes for the lighting wires in both the front and rear "Pyle" light bodys and in the smoke box under the light and tender under the light.
Are there any others out there who have ripped into a nice piece of brass like this who might give some tips on how they attacked this issue?
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
The biggest consideration for me was making sure to avoid shorts and well insulate things. Make sure the motor is isolated--you probably already know that, sounds like it may be. Sharp edges can cut a small hole in the wiring and cause a short. Thick cardstock, plastic sheet stock and heat shrink tubing can help too.
Richard,
Beautiful loco...A few thoughts:
Fix this stuff fist. Loco prep:- does the loco run well in DC?- is the electrical pick up bullet proof?- does that front coupler work?- Is the weight balance correct?- Check the motor stall current (not to exceed .70 amp for the 750)
Decoder installation:- make sure you have the TSU 750 - smaller than the 1000- use a high bass speaker if it will fit- figure out a path for the headlight wires - I have drilled through the back of the lamp casting and then through the front of the boiler (or top)- the tender shell should be attached to the bottom frame by a couple of screws. Drill out the tender bottom sheet very carefully to avoid warping the brass (don't ask how I know this)- decide whether you will hardwire or use a plug for the connections btwn tender and engine, I hardwire mine as the plug connectors are a hassle.- check for motor isolation (cans are almost always isolated at the terminal on the motor)-mount the speaker face down on the tender floor. Skip the enclosure and let the tender shell act as the enclosure.
Go on the Narrow gauge Yahoo list and Ask them for more pointers (Jim V. lurks there)
Good luck,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I wouldn;t mill a huge openign in the bottom of the tender, I'd drill a pattern of holes under the speaker area. If it's a can motor and has 2 wires coming from it, a quick test once the wires are disconnect will tell if either wire (brush connection) is connected to the chassis and/or rail. If not, you're good. Check current draw, if it's within the limits of a TSU-750 you cna use that, otherwise you might need the TSU-1000, if it fits.
If you seal the speaker to the opening in the bottom of the tender, and if the rest of the tender is sealed up good, you probably don't need an enclosure, the brass tender will act as one. Otherwise, fit in the largest enclosure you can fit, for best sound.
If it's typical of brass steamers, it may only pick up power on one side fo the loco and one side of the tender. Additional pickups on both the motor and tender will make it run MUCH more reliable and not have sound dropouts.
More of a challenge, but fitting a chuff cam will result the the absolute BEST synchronized sound, at all operating speeds.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks for the pointers, Guy. I, of course, have run the engine on DC and it is smooth as silk. It is well balanced and well behaved over switches and the like. The electrical pick up seems good, but I might just use a set of Blackstone caboose trucks on the tender. I love those tensioned multiple axle wipers. I may just craft some similar arrangement on the extant trucks though.
The can motor is, indeed, typical with isolated tabs on the rear. I'll just have to lift the wire that goes to the loco frame.
The tender body is held to its frame with 4 screws (already investigated this). The stall on the motor is 0.55 amps so I am good there too.
The basiest speaker that will fit is a good tip, thanks. These little tenders are not the best baffle, but Blackstone makes their engines sound great!
I, too, will probably also go for a permanent wire harness loco to tender.
I am going to have to separate the boiler tonight and see if I want to drill through the bottom of the pyle light and into the smoke box cover just underneath the headlight mount plate or go through the back of the light and into the top of the boiler. Which ever is the easier path will proably be my choice. I really prefer micro surface mount LEDs for lighting as they will last beyond my lifetime with no burnout, but I might still drop in some grain of wheat incandescents.
The chuff cam will be a daunting new experience.
Thanks again
I forget the brand off the top of my head, since I don;t even have very many steamers (a whole 2, and they already have sound and DCC), but there is at least one that is in split form so you don;t have to deal with pulling off a wheel and then trying to get it back in proper quarter.
Hmm, I should try to put on on my locos, have to run an extra wire to teh tender though, the existing plug connection is completely used.
Randy is right about drilling small holes rather than one large one in the tender floor.
I generally skip the cam in steamers unless there is one from the factory installed. Cams up the technical difficulty by a large factor and the tsu interpolated chuff rate is good enough for my railroad. If you must, there is a plastic disk that glues to the inside of a driver face that might be an easier option...
Yep' sound in brass steamers is definitly do-able one thing to look out for is there can be stalling problems on switchs because of the lack of all wheel pickup we have on the newer plastic locomotives.
As seen here with my older Akane Yellowstone......stil all in all very impressive sound's and sight though.
http://youtu.be/6FaOQBt5lh4
I knew I had seen something on this...........I searched my old MR mags, and my old "Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazettes" and nothing. Then I checked my Carstens "HOn3 Annuals" and there is was!
The 2011 HOn3 annual has exactly the article I needed. Jim Vails, on pages 38-43 has a complete and highly detailed (DCC-Sound) conversion of the very small Westside models, HOn3 brass C-16.
This is one of the finest articles yet on old brass conversion and on an especially tight narrow gauge model. He gives the part number for the ultra bass Blackstone speaker and many other good tips with lots of photos.
This is my guide on the specifics I needed. I thought I would pass it on. Same goes for HO brass, but you have a lot more room.
Nice looking little thing you have there.
I have done many a decoder and sound in brass steamers for myself and others. Drill 1/4 inch holes just to the inside diameter of the speaker. A medium oval or any speaker large enough to fit the tender will do. The larger the better. There will be 2 motor , one rail, and 2 headlight wires going between loco and tender at the least. On the smaller switchers 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 I have done I also bent some bronze wire and soldered them to a piece of PC board screwed to the bottom of the chassis for additional rail pickup. I tried one of the stick on cams once but it did not last long before the chuff was lost. One more wire and a lot of hassle was not worth it. Timing the chuffs with CVs has been good enough and once set will never fail you. An axle cam would be the way to go. I did a Key 2-10-2 a few years ago that was already set up with the cam and pickup. SMLEDs is the way to go with some magnet wire and a piece of 1/16 inch shrink wrap where it goes between the headlight and through the boiler. Most of the ones I have done had a notch at the smokebox door for the headlight wires.
Good luck
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!