I am actually rewiring my former DC layout for DCC and I would like to integrate a programming track. I want to use a spur that is placed near the edge of the shelf in a convenient location. I understand that that piece of track must be isolated from the rest of the layout when programming a loco so others locos are not affected by the process. Although I want to be able to use that spur when not programming. I figured out that I could wire the programming track directly to the booster and wire the rest of the layout to the same booster through a DPDT switch. When programming, I would switch off the layout. Is that correct?
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
That is correct. Put the rail wires of the spur/programiming track on the switch 'arms' or center lugs and the programing lines and running lines on the opposite, outside lugs.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
You should actually use a 4PDT, center-off toggle and wire a dead section longer than your longest loco/consist between your layout and the programming track. That way, you won't have to worry about bridging the gap and letting all the magic smoke out of anything.
Here's a link to some diagrams Tom posted a while ago showing how it's done.
Do yourself a favor and get one of these http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/nce_aswitch_review.htm the autoswitch makes the use of the program track on the PowerCab far less prone to error. You can't use the program track and run trains at the same time on the main, and this switch ensures that you don't accidentally reprogram all the locomotives on the layout.
The need for the dead section of track between program track and main is much more important on a DIgitrax system because you can run the main at the same time as programming. In a multi user layout this is a really useful feature as guests can keep running while I mess with CV's. BUT You don't want to bridge the gap with a powered loco as it can damage the program track, so more care has to be taken.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
You should use a 4PDT switch, and make a section between the program track and the "main line" that is electrically dead during programming operations. That section should be longer than your longest locomotive.
As you do programming, the locomotive will lurch forward a little every time to show it got the command. Do that often enough and it will travel quite a distance. The last thing you want is to bridge the programming and live tracks while doing this. Hence the dead section.
Here is an overview of a programming track.
Would not the type of setup for a programming track be dependent upon which DCC system was being used?
Indeed, the setup is completely different depending on if the DCC system in question has a dedicated program track output or not. ANd if it doesn't, NCE has a gadget called the Autoswitch which is meant to work with the PowerCab but will also work fine for other systems that do not have a program track. Effectively, it is a relay which switches the output to a different set of terminals when you enter program mode - mimicing a system with a dedicated program track.
Having an on-layout program track is actually very easy for a system that has no dedicated program track output - however you must be careful to always fli the switch, and make sure no locos, lighted cars, or metal wheels are bridging the gaps. You just need a siding with insulated joiners. Power from the booster connects directly to that track. Power for the rest of the layot passes through a DPST (or one side of a DPDT) toggle, so you cna disconnect the bulk of the layout and allowing signals to only get to the isolated siding.
For systems with a dedicated program track, the 4PDT switch method is best, to give a completely dead section between the program part and the rest of the layout, because not only can bridging the gap result in every loco on the layout being programmed, it can also cause damage to the system if track power gets applied to the program outputs. This might not be a big deal with NCE which shuts off the track power when programming, but Digitrax lets you run trains and program all at the same time.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I used what I think is correctly called an SPST toggle. Around the incoming centre posts I wrapped both my gapped programming track's feeder ends and the bus wire ends from the base unit issuing the DCC commands. When the toggle was thrown for the output posts to be isolated, thus killing power to the rest of the layout, power still made it from the incoming central posts up to the programming track via the feeders also wrapped around those central posts. Once I had achieved the address change in Paged Mode, I flipped the toggle to restore power to the entire layout, and continued with other necessary CV adjustments switching to Programming on the Main, or Ops Mode.
It worked wonderfully. I had as my programming track most of the lead to the turntable. It was gapped shortly after the turnout affording access to the lead, and gapped naturally at the edge of the turntable pit where those rails terminated.
Crandell
How many pins on the switch? 4 would be DPST, 6 is DPDT. 3 is SPDT, 2 is SPST.
There are two central terminals and two end terminals on one end of the body. The throw is left or right.
Thanks to everyone. I learned a lot throught this thread.
First, I now have two solutions that would work with my system.
Second, I learned that NCE PowerCab is different than others systems. That in itself explains why I was sometimes confused about what I read in books and magazines.
Finally I learned that I should always give more details than less when I write a post.
Regards.
betamax As you do programming, the locomotive will lurch forward a little every time to show it got the command. Do that often enough and it will travel quite a distance. The last thing you want is to bridge the programming and live tracks while doing this. Hence the dead section.
As I understand it with the PowerCab this can not occur because when you have activated the Program Track, the main track it dead and unpowered. This is why you can't run trains and program at the same time.
simon1966 betamax: As you do programming, the locomotive will lurch forward a little every time to show it got the command. Do that often enough and it will travel quite a distance. The last thing you want is to bridge the programming and live tracks while doing this. Hence the dead section. As I understand it with the PowerCab this can not occur because when you have activated the Program Track, the main track it dead and unpowered. This is why you can't run trains and program at the same time.
betamax: As you do programming, the locomotive will lurch forward a little every time to show it got the command. Do that often enough and it will travel quite a distance. The last thing you want is to bridge the programming and live tracks while doing this. Hence the dead section.
I believe you mean Powerhouse Pro, not PowerCab. The PowerCab does not have separate outputs for a program track. The PowerCab instructions state "the first item of business in this section (programming locomotives) is to remove any locomotives from the layout that will not be programmed".
Concerning betamax's comment, the lurching is not the only thing that can cause a problem if one is not careful. Even though with the Powerhouse Pro system the main track is dead, if one were to leave a diesel with pickups on both sets of trucks spanning the gap between the program track and the rest of the world any commands sent to that unit during the programming mode could also be sent to any other unit on the railroad via the electrical connection through the second truck.
Actually I meant the PowerCab and did not realize that it does not have a separate program track output, but it is interesting to note the Powerhouse Pro shuts down the main when in program track mode. No wonder so many clubs and users talk about having PowerCabs as programming environments to back up the larger system. I wondered why that was the case? In any multi operator setting it would be a real pain for that to happen when someone does not want to program on the main.
simon1966 No wonder so many clubs and users talk about having PowerCabs as programming environments to back up the larger system. I wondered why that was the case? In any multi operator setting it would be a real pain for that to happen when someone does not want to program on the main.
No wonder so many clubs and users talk about having PowerCabs as programming environments to back up the larger system. I wondered why that was the case? In any multi operator setting it would be a real pain for that to happen when someone does not want to program on the main.
Our club bought a PowerCab for use when we had a module to cart around. However, we also installed two programming tracks around the clubroom where we use the PowerCab for off the main line programming. Thus it does double duty.
I would prefer to think of this as a supplement to the main system rather than a back up. Although having to shut down the main line while using the programming track could be regarded as an inconvenience, that is not the reason we use the separate PowerCab.
First, the PowerCab provides more power to the program track so we normally don't have to deal with power boosters to program. But the second, more important reason is that in what you call the multi-operator setting we found that we had too many idiots pushing buttons without knowing what they were doing and making a mess of things. With the isolated PowerCab programming tracks they are free to screw up all they want and take as much time as they need to do so.
maxman With the isolated PowerCab programming tracks they are free to screw up all they want and take as much time as they need to do so.
With the isolated PowerCab programming tracks they are free to screw up all they want and take as much time as they need to do so.
I concur with that. At our club (Digitrax system) someone was trying to program-on-the-main an MTH locomotive, somehow, they managed to change all the 4 digit addresses of every loco on the track that was previously running as a 2 digit address, all of a sudden about 25 locomotives started to respond to his commands. Chaos resulted, thankfully no damage. Anything that was already set to 4 digit (the majority thank the Lord) was not impacted by whatever he did?
We do use the isolated program track all the time, built right into the layout and either throttle controlled or Decoder Pro controlled. There is no way our club could handle the layout shutting down to use this, it would not be considered "an inconvenience", it simply would not be tolerated, so we would also have to supplement the main system with another program environment. Likewise at home, I am frequently messing with CVs on the program track when boys are running trains.
Guy Papillon I am actually rewiring my former DC layout for DCC and I would like to integrate a programming track. I want to use a spur that is placed near the edge of the shelf in a convenient location. I understand that that piece of track must be isolated from the rest of the layout when programming a loco so others locos are not affected by the process. Although I want to be able to use that spur when not programming. I figured out that I could wire the programming track directly to the booster and wire the rest of the layout to the same booster through a DPDT switch. When programming, I would switch off the layout. Is that correct?
That is exactly what we did when we switched the club layout from DC to DCC a few years go. We use the NCE 5 amp Power Pro.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I did mine a bit differently. I have section 6 foot (two pieces of flex track) of my main line isolated with the plastic gap connectors and I have power going to the middle of that section directly to my Digitrax SEB. The rest of the layout has the power bus from the SEB but I have an on off switch on the bus wire before it reaches the track. So I turn off the layout at the switch and now my section of mainline becomes the programming track. 6 feet gives me enough room to test out any changes and then with a flip of switch the layout has power again.
We have no program track on the layout at the club, sothe only option is to use ither the club supplied DB150 program track at the table or if I'm there, my PR3 and JMRI. However, I do use Ops Mode all the time (ssshhhhh, don;t tell anyone, we're not supposed to - and anyway most everyone runs with UT4 throttles, so they couldn;t if they wanted, but I bring my personal DT402), haven't messed anyoen up yet - and I do it all the tiem at home. After a quick vlaidation of the install ont he progrm track so I don;t fry a decoder, I do almost all further setting on the main anyway - because usually all I am adjusting are things like momentum and sound volumes. The only way someone doing ops mode is going to wipe everyone's loco is if they first select address 00, which besides being used for DC loco operation on Digitrax is also the broadcast address for DCC, so ops mode to address 00 is like having every loco on the program track. I'll bet what happened was this personw as trying to change the address, and probably forgot to set CV17 and 18 first and then changed CV29 and ended up with an unknown address so they tried to reset CV29 using address 00. Kein Gerfingerpoken!