I have some old locos, ranging from a 1956 Revell SW1000 to a couple Atlas E3s and Berkshire from the mid 60's. None have been run for over 20 years. Actually, the Revell hasn't been right for longer as it won't pull on the track but will run up fine with direct contacts.
Any way, would it be worth adding DCC to these units or should I put them in glass boxes and start new? With new equipment, would these units be usable?
Yeah. Unless these are of great sentimental value, bringing them up to modern standards isn't going to be worth it. Take it from one who has tried. The best thing I did with a couple of them was take out the motors and gears, replace the couplers and run them as dummies.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
RealGomerI have some old locos, ranging from a 1956 Revell SW1000 to a couple Atlas E3s and Berkshire from the mid 60's.
There are many recent SW locomotives that could replace the SW1000. Likewise there are at least two Berkshires currently on the market. I am certain these from new tooling will run so much better than the old ones it will be well worth getting new locos.
I will guess the older ones would have to have special high current (and therefore expensive) decoders, or they will have to be re-motored.
RealGomer,
If the revell has the same drive as the old Lindburg ones did there was a spring that went around the motor shaft and down to one of the trucks in the center to turn on the axle. they were having a lot of trouble with that spring getting longer and losing i'ts spring action and thus not being able to pull itself, let alone anything else. Been there!!
Cheers Frank
I see this is your first post. Welcome.
I agree, lots of work, but the decoder isn't a lot of money--$20 or so for a decent one. You will be better off remotoring and possibly new drivetrain altogether. So, it depends on how badly you want to see these locos running and how much work and how much money(for the motor/drivetrain) you're willing to do. A good rule of thumb is that a loco should work well with an isolated lower amp motor before adding DCC. So, doing that work first will tell you what you're getting into.
I have some very old locos that I have added DCC to and really enjoy them as they were passed down from my Dad.
Richard
Caveat: I do not own a single DCC locomotive. I DO own, and run, a lot of locomotives old enough to run for president (and one old enough to draw Social Security.)
Unless, after a thorough cleaning and re-lube, a locomotive does not perform well on analog DC from a good power supply, conversion simply isn't worth it. Even if it does, how much power does it draw? (I own some catenary motors with two HUGE open-frame traction motors each. Just one of them will overload any toy-train power pack.)
For the brands that you named, conversion is unlikely to be worthwhile. You might consider kitbashing the body shells onto modern power chassis, but that, too, is only worthwhile if there is GREAT sentimental value involved.
This being the 21st century, you might consider putting the Berk on a siding (non-powered) with a work crew trying to restore it to operational status. Or on a pedestal, stuffed and mounted, in a city park. If the latter, be sure to put a tall chain-link fence around it to discourage `artists.'
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
tomikawaTT I DO own, and run, a lot of locomotives old enough to run for president
I DO own, and run, a lot of locomotives old enough to run for president
Please encourage them to do so.
Along the same lines, can dcc be added to any loco? Diesel or steam??? I have am Amtrak EMD F40Ph, a powered F7A Sante Fe diesel for my freight set, a Powered F7A & B unit for a passenger set and an American 4-4-0 steam loco with tender......Or can I run these as is using DCC???? Are there people who do this?? Thanks for the help.........
Hcopter51
In theory any loco can be converted. But as this thread has intimated, conversion may be costly, difficult, time consuming and not altogether rewarding if the end result performance is poor.
Sometimes it is simply not worth the effort.
The locos you list may be able to be converted, but you will need to provide a bit more information, specifically the brand and scale of the models. Here is the link to the TCS HO scale page for reference http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/HO_Search/search.html
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
hcopter51 Along the same lines, can dcc be added to any loco? Diesel or steam??? I have am Amtrak EMD F40Ph, a powered F7A Sante Fe diesel for my freight set, a Powered F7A & B unit for a passenger set and an American 4-4-0 steam loco with tender......Or can I run these as is using DCC???? Are there people who do this?? Thanks for the help.........
Yes & no. A lot depends on if you know what you are doing. Sounds like you don't and need a shop to do that. There are many, many factors that come into play with DCC installs, including DCC & sound.
The market for DCC ready, DCC on board and DCC sound on board is continually changing.
Figure $20.00 for a non sound decoder. $50.00 to maybe $150 for sound decoder and speaker. That is Only for parts. Labor will be more. Mot probably the labor will cost more than the loco.
Do a Google search for dcc installs. There are some places that do this. They will eventually show up in a search and this will give you ideas on how to find a lot of info on the 'Net. A lot more fun than being led by the hand when you learn how to search on your own.
The DCC controller will be another extensive discussion and then there is layout wiring.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
For DCC, just follow the NMRA guide lines. Easy, ok, for various values of easy. Make sure the motor is isolated. No wires on the two motor contacts. Connect the two proper wires from the decoder.
Oops, make sure you measure the motor current at 12 vdc. Should be less than an amp. Maybe 700 ma max from all that I have done.
Follow the instructions on the decoder pkg and know how to solder.
I will let others add to this as there is a lot more.
Well Now.......I've done several "are you crazy" DCC conversions, I love a challenge. First thing is patience, can you solder in tight places. Take a look at a hard wired decoder and the tiny solder pads with the wires attached, if one breaks off are you capable of soldering it back on. I bought a pencil point soldering iron rated at 20 watts, a little hot, 15 is recommended. Don't use that big ole weller 100watt iron. When you solder on those tiny decoders, and you will have to on some, you don't dare to hold the soldering iron too long or you will destroy the decoder. Tinning the wires is the most important thing to do, you can't just lay a wire on a pad bare and expect good results. The solder should flow and turn shiny, if it's dull it's cold and won't hold even though it seems to have "melted". I flux my wire before adding solder. When you strip the wire to solder to a decoder, 1/8" max length, I tin it, then trim it to about 1/16 and make sure there are no strands, not one, that can contact the opposing pads or wire. A tiny bit of solder is all that is needed. If you put too much it will flow to the opposing pad or pads. DON'T try the decoder to see if it is shorted, IT IS! Have a desolder iron on hand for those boo boo's. OK, I've talked enough about soldering, practice makes purrrfect!
Hard wire for a steam loco 4-6-2
Sometimes it seems impossible to even put a decoder in some locomotive shells, however there is hope and now the challenge. I've had to hog out shells and or the weighted frame for speakers for sound, and even for a mobil decoder. Some are so hard to cut, I've had to use a composite metal cut off wheel in my 4" milwalkee grinder, pig iron is what that metal is called. Used in concrete construction known as rebar. I also use a sawzall for metal I can cut with a metal cutting blade. I cut enough for whatever I need to fit and a little extra, not too much, you can't totally eliminate all the weight, or your loco won't be able to even pull the tender let alone a train.
Split frames are my biggest challenge, you know the kind when manufactured new there is no wires, no wires, not even for the headlight. The motors have tiny springs similar to what we see in kadee knuckle couplers, a little bigger. One half of the frame is pos, the other side neg. The springs sit just between each motor tab and the frame. The whole complete frame (weight) is electrifed. Now the wipers for some of this type frame is the 3 axles that simply ride on the frame. The axles are split with a nylon or plastic connector in the gear box so one side again is neg the other pos. The headlight and smoke box are simply held on with varnish, I believe, or a glue of sorts, but they simply pull off so as not anything electrical is attached during my strip it down phase. The motor housing sits tightly between the frames and is already isolated by plasctic covers on the front and back of the motor, checked with a meter touched on the brush pads to assure the motor is in fact isolated. Where the smoke box was is sometimes a good place to put the decoder, and yes you can, I have used n and z scale decoders as long as the stall current is less than 1 amp, this must be checked on all older, wish I could add ddc to this great ole loco, loco's. Sometimes, the one I just finished, the decoder is taped with foam double face tape in the shell roof over the motor. The motor has vent holes for cooling that I didn't want to cover with tape or tape the decoder there for fear of burning up the motor. I try to not use the cab, but the ceiling of the cab is good too. I installed the headlight using a 3mm glo white led and 1k resistor, the resistors (3) are where the smoke box used to be and shrink wrapped. I added ditch lights 2 mm glo white also with 1k resistors for each. The wires (5) for the light's are in the crack between the 2 halves of the frame. The motor wires are orange and gray and soldered on the brush tabs for the motor, then the tabs are bent slightly toward the motor shaft due to the tight fit beteen the motor tabs and the frame which is electrically hot. I drilled and tapped one hole on each side of the frame down and way back of where the weight is under the cab for 2-56 by 1/4" screws (they can be smaller), but you have to look hard to see them, a little black paint and nobody will see them. They are now the rail pickup wire attachments for the red and black wire. The other thing I had to cut away was the front of the frame, top of smoke box area a bit because since there was no wires for the small bulb for the headlight, I had to make room for the wire and the led for the headlight. I used RV silicone to secure the ditch lights and headlight. Soldered up all the wires, shrink wrapped, tucked and put back together.
I used a NCE D13SR decoder for this install, since I heard so much about these decoders and researched it first, it has 3 tabs on the opposing end for the extra functions I wanted for the ditch lights. I am usually a digitrax, TCS, or soundtraxx decoder nut for most of my convesions, people still think I'm crazy for doing these old timers, but I enjoy doing it. This conversion took about 5 hrs total, including the time I spent repairing the NCE decoder, see thread about NCE lead free. And it was easy to program and I'm quite impressed with the performance. The tender has a Digitrax Soundbug installed also that I did, all I'm gonna say is, it's ok. I have done 18 hard wire conversions, each one gets easier, was it worth it, well yes, I learned a lot and it's rewarding to me especially if someone says to me "you've got to be crazy", hey at 68, I can still be creative and I'm not getting alzhiemers by not using my brain, it's all good, just do it!
I haven't started my biggest challenge yet and that is converting my ole mantua Chattanooga to DCC, now ya'll know I'm ready for the nuthouse!
Love it, Jim
One more thing I'd like to add to my above post. Hey for $20.00 and 5 hrs of time I got a great running DCC 4-6-2 loco. And for the additional $41.00 I've got sound to boot, we all know or some of us know that the Soundbug ain't the greatest, but......For someone who has never installed a decoder in one of these type oldie's it may take a few hours longer, but you learn a lot, and they do get easier and more rewarding, the more you do. I've learned a lot about electronics from these installs and I'm in the process of building mini micro infra red devices to operate crossing gates, bell, and lights. I plan on hiding them in bush's or small outbuildings. I know I can buy devices already made, but again, I love the challenge and it keeps me busy.
But the one thing I really need to say about these "older analog loco" conversions to DCC is make sure it's an excellent runner before converting, DCC does not improve it. So it may not be worth it, unless you want to change the motor and or drive. Jim
Jim
RealGomer I have some old locos, ranging from a 1956 Revell SW1000 to a couple Atlas E3s and Berkshire from the mid 60's. None have been run for over 20 years. Actually, the Revell hasn't been right for longer as it won't pull on the track but will run up fine with direct contacts. Any way, would it be worth adding DCC to these units or should I put them in glass boxes and start new? With new equipment, would these units be usable?
Hello and welcome to the community
As everyone has already said, they all need to be checked out on DC first to assess their run abilities, and if they don't run well on DC, they will run worse on DCC. You might consider displaying them at that point if you can't repair them or get them repaired.
Good luck with them.
Bob Berger, C.O.O. N-ovation & Northwestern R.R. My patio layout....SEE IT HERE
There's no place like ~/ ;)
MisterBeasley tomikawaTT: I DO own, and run, a lot of locomotives old enough to run for president Please encourage them to do so.
tomikawaTT: I DO own, and run, a lot of locomotives old enough to run for president
I would. They're at least as well-qualified as this year's crop.
Unfortunately (or, maybe, fortunately) they're all subjects of Imperial Japan. Even the ex-PRR 0-4-0T was naturalized a long time ago.
I know - but fun.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with apolitical locomotives)
Thanks for all the replies. My Revell qualifies for President, btw, as it was born in the USA. Looks like I'll be getting some display cases for the old iron and starting from scratch. I did love watching that Berk pull more cars than any other.
RealGomer
Welcome to the forums! As usual these forums have provided a lot of great advise for your situation.
I would only add the following: If you decide that your old locos are not worth the effort now to make them good runners, don't dispose of them. As your interest in the hobby grows you might find that their value to you as a modeler grows too. Down the road you might regret dumping them, especially when you get to the stage where you are looking for a new modelling challenge.
I have a old Roundhouse 4-6-0 that I have been working on for a few years a bit at a time. One of the first things I did was to move the motor back in the frame so it is driving the third set of drive wheels instead of the original second set. Why did I do that? I did it because now you see the prototypical open space under the boiler instead of staring at model gears. Small point, but it was a lot of fun doing it, and actually not too difficult to do, and IMHO it looks much better.
So, the moral of the story is: If you like it, even a little bit, then keep it! (and I am the last person on earth who should be talking about morals!)
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
you could try adding stanton drives. They are trucks with motors in them. they are avalible from north west short line.
Just a dodge for converting older locos with high current motors to DCC: use two decoders in parallel. I've done it and it works, I model in "O" and still have locos with old open frame motors (Pitman, Tri-ang etc). Both decoders will be programmed with the same address and a second (or third) decoder is cheaper than a new motor and gear train. Simpler as well.
Ken Attwood,
Newquay, UK.
Ken - Welcome to trains.com!
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
My Blog
I've got a very nice little scratchbuilt Whitcome 0-4-0 switcher with a chassis that's a lot older than your President!
I've converted 3 United / PFM early brass geared locos.....a Shay, Climax, and Vulcan Duplex. In each case I remotored first and then added Soundtraxx Tsunami micro decoders and speakers. Needless to say, packaging was VERY tight and intricate but all 3 conversions turned out perfectly. Very tedious work but the results are rewarding. I've also added Tsunami DCC + sound to newer models (Rivarossi Heisler, Bachmann Shay, & Mantua 2-6-6-2).
I have known this HO model railroader for 55 years and his workmanship and dedication to the hobby is awesome.
Looking forward to seeing his layout progress within the month. Great job Sturg.
I also have similar old brass and non-brass logging locomotives and will be following his examples.
Badger1