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DCC or DC - how to decide

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DCC or DC - how to decide
Posted by I'm-Jim on Friday, February 24, 2012 9:10 AM

 

I was big into Lionel as a kid and have spent 40 years out of active railroading. I read a lot of magazines, but that was it. That is changing fast as I approach retirement. I am clearing out the basement for a big layout and I am trying to learn all about DCC. It all looks very cool but I have one big question. If you are only going to run 1 or 2 locomotives at a time do you really need DCC? I expect that years down the road I will expand, but can I get away with DC for now and am I giving up a lot if I do?

 

Thanks for your thoughts...  Jim

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 24, 2012 9:23 AM

Well, if you plan on running only one loco at a time, DC will suit you fine, but if you add just one more loco, you will have to invest a lot of effort into wiring, which you can spare by using DCC.

With DC, you control the track power, which requires some kind of routing, but with DCC, you control your loco. I think this says about all.

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Posted by simon1966 on Friday, February 24, 2012 9:28 AM

Hi Jim, welcome to the forum.

Do you have many locomotive already that would need to be converted to DCC?  Do you have a lot of money tied up in DC power packs?   If you are starting from scratch and have no investment in place already then I would go DCC from the start.  If you are only planning to run 1 or 2 locos at a time you can easily get away with one of the lower cost entry system DCC systems, so your initial cost won't be all that different.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Train Modeler on Friday, February 24, 2012 10:39 AM

Jim,

Welcome.

Good comments already.

I didn't convert to DCC until I saw what was happening with sound locos and other functions which could be controlled remotely.    Putting these little chips in the locos has opened up a lot of things you can do in a loco.  Some are controlling engineer movements, couplers and different lighting effects.    If you have grandchildren, sound will be good for their enthusiasm.      If you want to experience all of what modern technology can bring to just 1 loco, DCC is valuable and not terribly expensive.

There are other items such as turnouts and signals you can control with a DCC cab as well.

Richard

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Posted by narrow gauge nuclear on Friday, February 24, 2012 11:30 AM

I'm with Jim on this.  I too was out of MR for about the last 15 years and have hopped back in only because of what I saw at a train show a bit over a year ago now.  Amazing!  I decide to ditch all of my old HO stuff and go HOn3 due to the Blackstone/Tsunami sound  loco combo that was well presented at that one train show.

GO DCC, even with one loco.  You will not regret it.  Model Train Stuff sells the $225.00 Digitrax Zephyr starter system, (which is fabulous and about all you will need), for $169.00.  Just do it!

Richard

Richard

If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, February 24, 2012 12:14 PM

Even with a single locomotive, the advantages of DCC are already evident, particularly with sound and lighting.  Once you go to two engines, either operating independently or running together in a consist, the scale tips way over.

DC wiring for anything but the most basic layout gets complicated, while DCC wiring stays simple.

Today, pretty much all locomotives are sold either with decoders or without.  The decoders themselves will handle DC operation, with some loss of functionality.  If you compare prices, you'll find that it's cheaper to buy a decoder-equipped engine than to buy a DC-only engine and then add a decoder yourself, and the installation will almost certainly be better.

Go to a train show, or visit a train club.  There's a reason they're all running DCC now.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by simon1966 on Friday, February 24, 2012 12:37 PM

Yes, MisterBeasley, I believe you can safely assert that locomotives are sold "with decoders or without"  not sure what other alternatives there are?  Laugh

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by mobilman44 on Friday, February 24, 2012 1:02 PM

For what its worth...............

If you are just not absolutely certain that model railroading will be a major hobby for you, I would suggest you start out with DC - if for nothing else than the fact its much less expensive and simpler to understand.

Should you wake up one morning and find that MR is a major force in your life - and will be with you "forever", then get serious about moving over to DCC. 

BUT, before you spend a lot of money into X, Y, or Z DCC stuff, give the folks on the Forum a shout for their input.   Of course you do need to read all you can on the subject, and keep on eye on this Forum as well. 

BTW, I was with DC since the early '60s, and went whole hog into DCC three years ago.  It was an excellent decision, and I have never regretted it.   BUT, it can be expensive and it can be complicated - depending....................

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, February 24, 2012 1:57 PM

Howdy, Jim.  Welcome to the forums.

If, as I surmise, you are starting from a bare plate, my suggestion is that you get a DC locomotive that is DCC ready, and the least expensive analog DC power pack you can find.

Design your layout so that you can build just a small piece at a time, get some track down and wire up that DC pack.  Get wheels turning as soon as possible!  That way you will determine if you are a builder (Take a bow, Mr Beasley) or a runner (guilty as charged, yeronnor!)  Or, heaven forfend, you might decide that, like my wife, offspring and granddaughters, you'd rather play golf!

If you decide to become a `serious' model railroader, then you should make your second and all succeeding pieces of motive power DCC and invest in a solid DCC system.  Pull the jumper board on your first loco and replace it with a DCC decoder.  You can recycle that DC power pack as a power supply for structure lights and Tortoise switch machines.

Note that this is a , "Do as I say, not as I do," recommendation.  I NEVER got wholly disconnected from model railroading and now have 74 years seniority.  I'm building a double garage filling layout to a very specific prototype, time and location.  I have a large roster and operate using a rather complex to install but very user friendly analog DC control system (the design of which has 38 years' seniority!)  OTOH, if I ever change scales (to On30) I would go DCC from the git-go.

Once again, welcome.  Whatever you do, have fun.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL system)

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, February 24, 2012 2:05 PM

simon1966

Yes, MisterBeasley, I believe you can safely assert that locomotives are sold "with decoders or without"  not sure what other alternatives there are?  Laugh

Thanks.  Like a broken clock, I try to be right at least twice a day.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, February 24, 2012 3:11 PM

I'm-Jim
 I am clearing out the basement for a big layout and I am trying to learn all about DCC. It all looks very cool but I have one big question. If you are only going to run 1 or 2 locomotives at a time do you really need DCC? I expect that years down the road I will expand, but can I get away with DC for now and am I giving up a lot if I do?

The key in your quesiton is the number 2.  If you are planning on running two locomotives independently and simlutaniously there are basically two choices.   Go with DC and install the track blocks and wiring for two cab block control or go with DCC and install electronics into the locomotives.

Now in this day and age I am guessing you will not even need to install the electronics of the second option as even some Bachmann locos are coming with the electronics installed at the factory.   It is not hard to find DCC installed in locomotives off the shelf.

Nothing says you could not build the layout and run 1 locomotive DC until such time you are ready to add the second train, then switch to DCC. 

I am a 45 year expert in DC block cab control wiring yet I still recommend DCC as soon as the 2nd train is added to the mix.

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Posted by Rangerover1944 on Friday, February 24, 2012 4:02 PM

GO DCC, even with one loco.  You will not regret it.  Model Train Stuff sells the $225.00 Digitrax Zephyr starter system, (which is fabulous and about all you will need), for $169.00.  Just do it!

I would suggest you go for it, Digitraz Zephyr for $169.00, it's a bargain, and if you decided not to pursue DCC, you will get your money back by selling it for that price. But DCC is like eating one potato chip, impossible not to have an appitite for it. Once you put your first sound loco on the track and start it up and listen to the engine start and watch it crawl even at the slowest speed that you can't possibly duplicate using the best DC power supply, and giving it a little throttle, listening to the engine rev up and moving on down the track WOW! Now put 2 loco's on the same track with DCC and operate at different speeds, or in fact going different directions, you'll be sold, no question. Once I started DCC, I have no regrets and never looked back. And I started with the cheapest system available, won't mention the manufacturer, and it had limited expansion, but all in all it bit me enough to want more!  I too recommend Digitrax and there are other fine DCC systems, but I have purchased other Digitrax components and I am very pleased with them! Jim

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Posted by Lehigh Valley 2089 on Friday, February 24, 2012 4:07 PM

DCC shows advantages even with one locomotive, and this involves the performance of the locomotive. I have seen a Model Power Mogul and Atlas C420 run on and off of DCC, and they perform far better on DCC than they did on DC.

Also, you can really see what kind of wiring you need for a DC layout by looking if you look a wiring schematics for a simple Lionel layout if you want independent control. While with DCC, you just need to hook up the system, and you're set to go.

The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.

-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, February 24, 2012 4:54 PM

Jim,

Being that this is your first post, understand that this subject sometimes cause people to get all juiced up over relatively minor misstatements about either system.   People have invested a lot of time, effort, and money into their operating system so it is natural to want to defend those decisions.  So far the comments have been very helpful and on point.

Nobody can decide for you what is best.  Good to see you asked for thoughts and not answers.

I have a simple DC layout that operates one locomotive.  The reason is because I have no desire to watch or control two trains moving at the same time, or to have one locomotive hand off a train to another.  I haven't had that desire for about 20 years now, and I don't see that changing much.   Even for those who like to watch two trains at the same time relatively unattended, they seem to  find it easier to have two separate mainlines than to let the operating system separate the trains on one mainline.  

Layouts can be simple or complicated.  If its complicated, neither DC nor DCC will eliminate complexity.  Complexity requires more circuitry.  It can be installed under the layout by you as with DC or installed on a locomotive decoder and inside a power controller by a factory as with DCC.  Understanding how to operate the circuitry requires a learning curve for both.  With DC you have to spend time installing the circuitry yourself.  With DCC you have to spend money  to have the factory install it for you. 

Some report that with DC, you'll be flipping toggle switches constantly to control the track's power from block to block (if operating more than one train at a time).  Some report that with DCC, you'll need to spend time programming locomotives to get the full benefit of all of the functions available, which is what your'e paying for.  In addition, you will need better electrical connections with DCC for the signal to stay constant, requiring more precise track installation and more frequent cleaning, and probably installing more under table feeder wires.  So, both operating systems have their unique hassles.

So, frankly, for a simple layout, I think operating systems are irrelevant.  

With DCC, you get the advantage of lighting effects.  What I think this means is that you can make the light off, on, dim, bright, or flash.  With DC, you are stuck with whatever the lighting circuit allows.  It also means that a locomotive equipped with ditch lights can be made to do things as well with DCC.  While this sounds good to me, the only locomotives that come with factory installed LED ditchlights are all modern six axle jobs that are too big for my layout. So for me, lighting effects present little consideration.

With DCC, you get full advantage of sound effects.  You should go to a hobby shop to hear a sound equipped locomotive to decide for yourself if they are worth the extra money.  I know nothing about sound, but there are DC controllers that allow for sound equipped locomotives to be activated with DC systems.  Operating only one locomotive at a time, a DC sound operation might work very well.  Operate multiple sound locomotives at a time with DC and it may become a complete nightmare, if not impossible.

I think Chuck's point about a limited investment and resale ability is a good one.  The used market is not friendly towards used digital equipment, for fear some of the circuitry may have been "fried" by the previous owner and a perception of less durability.  OTOH, there is always a healthy market for used DC equipment since its circuitry is less prone to mistaken abuse and the buyer tends to know what they are getting.  There's less depreciation with DC stuff, I would think.

Hope I provide you with some thoughts. 

- Douglas

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Posted by simon1966 on Friday, February 24, 2012 5:14 PM

Doughless

I think Chuck's point about a limited investment and resale ability is a good one.  The used market is not friendly towards used digital equipment, for fear some of the circuitry may have been "fried" by the previous owner and a perception of less durability.  OTOH, there is always a healthy market for used DC equipment since its circuitry is less prone to mistaken abuse and the buyer tends to know what they are getting.  There's less depreciation with DC stuff, I would think.

Hope I provide you with some thoughts. 

I would say that you are almost spot on with your comments, but for the last section.  Used DC power packs are a dime-a-dozen at train shows around here.  Boxes of them for sale a knock down prices.  Check eBay as well, there are usually many of them for sale at low prices getting little interest.  This is because there are so many being retired as folks convert to DCC.  On the other hand, the used market for DCC components holds is value very well.  I have purchased and watch for Digitrax parts.  Used and obsolete Digitrax throttles sell for what I consider to be silly money, not much less than brand new current models.  So in my experience, I would say the exact opposite is true.  DC packs don't hold value, DCC components do.  The good news is that if you want to go DC, you can really do it on the cheap as the re-sale value is so low.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, February 24, 2012 5:22 PM

If you're big into electrician type work, than DC will work fine!! Taking a small layout and dividing it up into 10 separate power blocks so you can operate two engines at the same time for example. If you like wiring DPDT switches, DC is for you!!

But if you just want to run two wires to the track and be able to run two or more engines completely independently, then you should go ahead and do DCC.

FWIW I would spend the extra money and get one good sound equipped DCC engine. It's too easy to want to get "one of everything" right away, but getting one or two good sound equipped DCC engines will be a better choice in the long run.

BTW don't be intimidated by the options DCC offers. If you want you can just set up a programming track (easy to do) so you can change the ID number of each engine from the default 03 to the engine on the cab side. The other CV's (Control Values) come from the factory with defaults that will work fine as is. As you learn more, you can "tweak" some CV's to change how the engine starts and stops (momentum), change the horn or whistle, etc. But you don't have to do any of these things to run trains.

Stix
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Posted by Doughless on Friday, February 24, 2012 5:53 PM

simon1966

 

 Doughless:

 

I think Chuck's point about a limited investment and resale ability is a good one.  The used market is not friendly towards used digital equipment, for fear some of the circuitry may have been "fried" by the previous owner and a perception of less durability.  OTOH, there is always a healthy market for used DC equipment since its circuitry is less prone to mistaken abuse and the buyer tends to know what they are getting.  There's less depreciation with DC stuff, I would think.

Hope I provide you with some thoughts. 

 

 

I would say that you are almost spot on with your comments, but for the last section.  Used DC power packs are a dime-a-dozen at train shows around here.  Boxes of them for sale a knock down prices.  Check eBay as well, there are usually many of them for sale at low prices getting little interest.  This is because there are so many being retired as folks convert to DCC.  On the other hand, the used market for DCC components holds is value very well.  I have purchased and watch for Digitrax parts.  Used and obsolete Digitrax throttles sell for what I consider to be silly money, not much less than brand new current models.  So in my experience, I would say the exact opposite is true.  DC packs don't hold value, DCC components do.  The good news is that if you want to go DC, you can really do it on the cheap as the re-sale value is so low.

 

Simon,

Thanks for correcting my comments as it applies to used power sources, etc...  I guess I've never priced out used power equipment in that way.  And DC power packs can be abused by overloading too.

My comments were more applicable to what I have more experience with; used locomotives that have aftermarket decoders installed.  They tend to languish in terms of value.  I think its probably due to an uncertainty about how the previous owner installed the electronics.  As you know, some decoders also work better with certain locomotives and not as well with others.  Their price seems to be no better than a used DC locomotive.

 

 

- Douglas

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Posted by simon1966 on Friday, February 24, 2012 5:59 PM

I agree with you on that point about the decoders.  My son's tend to look for cheap deals at train shows.  They have picked up a few locos with horrendous DCC installations that simply did not work.  I would much rather purchase a tested DC loco and do my own decoder installation.  However I derive a great deal of pleasure in taking a basket case and turning it into a nice running DCC loco. 

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, February 24, 2012 6:19 PM

wjstix

If you're big into electrician type work, than DC will work fine!! Taking a small layout and dividing it up into 10 separate power blocks so you can operate two engines at the same time for example. If you like wiring DPDT switches, DC is for you!!

But if you just want to run two wires to the track and be able to run two or more engines completely independently, then you should go ahead and do DCC.

FWIW I would spend the extra money and get one good sound equipped DCC engine. It's too easy to want to get "one of everything" right away, but getting one or two good sound equipped DCC engines will be a better choice in the long run.

BTW don't be intimidated by the options DCC offers. If you want you can just set up a programming track (easy to do) so you can change the ID number of each engine from the default 03 to the engine on the cab side. The other CV's (Control Values) come from the factory with defaults that will work fine as is. As you learn more, you can "tweak" some CV's to change how the engine starts and stops (momentum), change the horn or whistle, etc. But you don't have to do any of these things to run trains.

Stix,

I think some of your comments have embedded assumptions in there, but I agree with the comment about spending extra money to get a good quality sound equipped locomotive, if the OP goes DCC.

May as well pay the money and learn about all of the options to get the full benefit of DCC.

Which is somewhat contradictory from your last paragraph.  Why would he want to spend extra money for DCC just to do nothing except run it like the factory set it  up, when he can do that by spending a lot less for a DC set up?  

I'm just thinking out loud here..

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Posted by simon1966 on Friday, February 24, 2012 6:30 PM

A lot of folks take a factory equipped DCC loco and do nothing but change the address from the default 03 to the road number.  The factory default settings for the decoder will generally have the lighting effects, as appropriate, set up and of course the sound scheme.  In most all cases the loco will run very nicely this way, allowing control of lighting and sound effects.

I take things a little further and typically reduce all the sound volumes to more acceptable levels, and perhaps fool a bit with the starting voltages to get the unit to perform really well at slow speeds.

Then you can kick it up a notch more and play around with speed tables to match the speeds of different locos throughout their range so as to allow for good multi-unit operation. 

But back to the original point, an out of the box DCC loco with factory settings will do things that an out of the box DC loco will not.  It is certainly not a requirement to mess with CV's to get enjoyment out of the DCC loco.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, February 24, 2012 8:52 PM

simon1966

But back to the original point, an out of the box DCC loco with factory settings will do things that an out of the box DC loco will not.  It is certainly not a requirement to mess with CV's to get enjoyment out of the DCC loco.

Oh absolutely!  

Whether or not the OP or any purchaser wants to do these extra things is always the question with one of these threads.  Comparing what you can do with what you want to do is the decision making part.

Your explanatory comments are helpful in that way.

The decision really comes down to what a modeler is interested in now relative to what they might be interested in later.

I understand the concept of purchasing an opportunity to do something in the future.  Although not a perfect analogy, it would be like someone living in Seattle spending the extra money to buy a convertible now instead of a hard top because he thinks he might eventually move to southern California.  

If the OP is just getting back into the hobby, How long it will be before he is running trains?  Will he be running 2 trains almost immediately, or will he enjoy running one for a while?  Personally, I am still in the mode of securing the track to the roadbed, building structures, found an interest in detailing locomotives, researching the proper rolling stock for my industries, building scenery, etc...  Securing an operating system out of concern one won't be there in the future when I may need it is not something I'm spending my time and money on at the moment.

To the OP: Wire your layout for one train DC or multiple train DCC operation, meaning two wires under the entire layout with some feeders soldered up to the rails every 10 feet, more feeders if you may want DCC.  If you want reversing loops, you need to wire them appropriately regardless.  

The only real cost commitment at that point for DC would be a $35 DC power pack that can be resold for $20 on ebay, and a $90  New-Old Stock pre-sound Atlas GP38 Master line locomotive that has a dual mode decoder preset to DC out of the box but that can jump to DCC with a popping of the dynamic brake hatch and moving the jumper plug to DCC mode.  Instructions supplied.  You won't have to resell that if you want to jump to DCC later.  Atlas produced these from 2000 to 2005.  Check their website under past products to know which ones they are.  The current ones have more options and sound and go for $250.  Only buy that if you're going all-in with DCC.

If you want steam, research dual mode decoder equipped locos.  A straight DC Bachmann 2-8-0 is a good running locomotive that will take relatively sharp curves and will fetch about $50 used and can be resold very easily. 

Then spend your time enjoying all the other aspects the hobby has to offer and don't fret over the lack of DCC at the moment.  It'll still be there when you need it, if that day ever comes.

Sorry, I resorted to giving you a specific answer rather than just thoughts.  Good Luck.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by simon1966 on Friday, February 24, 2012 9:11 PM

I totally concur with what Doughless is saying here.  The main thing is to have the ability to run a train as you lay your track, both to check things as you go, but also as a motivation.  I did all my wiring with DCC in mind, but ran with a used MRC DC throttle for almost a year before jumping into DCC.  I always intended to go DCC, but found my money disappearing on turnouts and track in the early stages.  One thing for sure, there are many aspects to enjoy in this great hobby.  So you don't have to make a purchase decision, but it would be wise to at least plan with respect to how you approach the wiring job.   There are bunches of threads on power buses and feeders for DCC.  To solder, or not to solder etc. etc.  In the mean time take a gander at www.wiringfordcc.com   tons of good information, though parts will make your eyes glaze over Zip it!

 

 

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, February 24, 2012 10:14 PM

And before I leave the thread, I remembered the OP spoke of Lionel.  My specific recommendations were related to HO scale.

I'll expand upon my other response a little further.

OP is building a new layout and learning DCC at the same time.  After installing track and wiring it, how will he test it?  If he does not have a  DC power pack, he will be dealing with many variables at the same time .  Possible poor wiring, not understanding DCC, finicky DCC power unit or loco.  DC power packs and locos are not finicky and require no confidence in operating right out of the box.  He will want to spend money on a DC power pack and DC capable locomotive to have a controlled means by which to test his trackwork.  Frustration will quickly set in if the trains don't move and he's forced to troubleshoot track AND his knowledge of DCC systems at the same time  He needs to know his track works before installing DCC.  So he will need to spend the money on a DC power pack and a dual mode locomotive anyway, right?

He only needs to consider spending the money for a DCC system when he decides its time to start running 2 trains.  Who knows, maybe that's right away, but waiting to make that decision will not cost him any more money since he will need the means to run one train to test his track anyway.

And we don't know his operating plans.  If he wants to frequently run (or does he mean watch) 2 trains at the same time relatively unattended, I think most modelers prefer to have two separate main lines regardless, making the whole operating system choice really moot.

- Douglas

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Posted by simon1966 on Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:16 AM

The pair of intertwined loops that are implied in the last sentence would allow for continuous running and would essentially be a museum layout where unattended running is desired.  There are some modellers who are "rail-fans" and are content to watch trains, but I would contend that this type of running will more likely result in boredom.  Each to their own, but I would think seriously about designing a layout to maintain interest.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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  • From: Clearlake, California. USA
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Posted by Lake on Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:28 PM

Jim, the people that are now doing DCC, me included have really good information from experience. We all started out with the basic factory settings and then moved on to changing them as needed. When I started, besides the forums I bought the book from our host on this forum, Model Railroaders. DCC Made Easy. It helped a lot with understanding the basics of DCC.

There is no reason that it has to be an all or nothing from the beginning as Doughless keeps implying. And the car analogy has absolutely nothing to do with how you start in DCC. Wink

I only operate one engine at a time when by my self. The great thing is I can pull in a train, uncouple the road power, put in the number for one of the yard switchers. Then move the cars of of the arrival track, then go back to other engines to move them to the service area then do the next jog needed. This with out needing any power blocks that need turning on or off as I used to have to do. 

Well, that's my story.Big Smile

Ken G Price   My N-Scale Layout

Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR

N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • 90 posts
Posted by john galt on Monday, February 27, 2012 6:46 PM

When I first got back into HO..I ran power blocks and DC..I cross wired a Bachman ($19 special) and we intentionally let them wreck..then I started building my own cars, and my engines went to $69 and up..( we dont wreck trains anymore!!!)...and I wanted to run more than 1 engine...so I went to Digitrax,,,

I had some structural work to do on my home and had a few family and friends helping..they asked about the layout..I have 5 throttles and 55 engines ( at that time about 20 were DCC  2 with sound 1 steam 1 diesel ) 

So they started running trains..

My brother in law said

"well that was an interesting waste of a half hour"

I replied

"its been 5 hours...".

if you want realism and ease of operation based on prototype reality DCC 

after all would you travel across the country today with an ox cart or drive a car?

 

going backwards just means you did not go the right way to begin with...

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Sorumsand, Norway
  • 3,417 posts
Posted by steinjr on Monday, February 27, 2012 7:18 PM

 One engine moving on a small (15" x 11 foot H0 scale layout). Sound may or may not be something you would want to try (and yes - the sound level can be tuned down) :-)

watch?v=ATMUzp2tlY

 Here is two engines without sound running on the same small layout - first a GE 44-tonner pushes a car into one track, then a 2-8-0 consolidation picks up a couple of cars from another track.

 No need to wire tracks so engine 2 is on dead track while engine 1 is moving or the other way around - I can park engine 1 and 2 anywhere where they don't get in way of each other:

watch?v=8WRkjJjSF5I

 As you will observe, I don't use DCC to run two trains unattended on separate loops :-)

 

 Smile,
 Stein

 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Staten Island NY
  • 1,734 posts
Posted by joe323 on Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:39 PM

Personally I started with DC and then changed to DCC, once I discovered what it can do (I E running two or more trains with independent control)  Even with only on train running at a time I found the advantage of running my layout with DCC to be that I could have multiple trains on the track say on sidings idling if I wish.

And the old DC power pack it still runs my analog switches, so no waste.

 

 

 

Joe Staten Island West 

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: Colorado
  • 4,075 posts
Posted by fwright on Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:45 PM

I'm-Jim

....I am clearing out the basement for a big layout and I am trying to learn all about DCC. It all looks very cool but I have one big question. If you are only going to run 1 or 2 locomotives at a time do you really need DCC? I expect that years down the road I will expand, but can I get away with DC for now and am I giving up a lot if I do?

Jim

Jim

Right now, I'm in the position of DC at home, and DCC at the club.  To participate in the club more than I do, I need to bite the bullet and switch to DCC.  But honestly, I'm perfectly content with my DC setup at home.

For a one man show - I don't try to run 2 trains at once by myself - DC works quite well.  I can easily isolate other locomotives that are not in use by wiring in a toggle or using contacts on the switch machines for power routing.

If I do have more than one operator - one of the kids or wife or friend - there is plenty of separation between operating areas for the second and third train.  There is not much shared trackage during multiple train operations, and I model narrow gauge and standard gauge short lines with laid back operations.  Again, DC suffices quite well.

Since I model 19th Century in HO and HOn3, space for speakers and decoders is really difficult to come by in my tiny locomotives.  And they take up space that can be used for additional weight.  Again, DCC has no advantage in this situation.

I don't mind planning out the operational and wiring scheme for DC.  By doing so, I can minimize the number of block toggles to be used.

I have built my own DC walk-around throttles that give the control and performance I desire.

Finally, my locomotives are not stock RTR models.  They are kits or bashes or remotors/regears.  I much prefer to test and tune my builds and mechanisms on DC.

But my situation is not the same as most folks. 

If you are running multiple trains in fairly close proximity on the same area of track, you want DCC.

If you have a small layout with reversing loops, or a layout where reversing loops are a major part of operations, you want DCC (with auto-reversers).

If you want today's sound-equipped locomotives, you want DCC.

If you are operating your locomotives on another layout that has DCC, you want DCC.

If you don't enjoy planning your operations and wiring, you want DCC.

If you buy RTR locomotives, and operate them straight from the box, there's no need to tune and test on DC.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

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