Hey everyone,
Getting into this hobby again after doing it as a kid with my dad. Have a 4x8 layout that I am looking at expanding to 10x8 L-shape. Would like to eventually run 3-4 trains, but just 2 for now would be fine. Will have 8-10 turnouts. I'm looking for a DCC system that can handle (for now), 2 sound-equipped locos, and program accessory decoders for my turnouts and a few accessory lights. Eventually it will expand. I have narrowed it down to:
Bachmann EZ Command Dynamis
NCE Power Cab
Want to stay at $150, could go to $200, and found power cab at $150 online.
-Is there another system I should look at?
-Which system would you recommend?
Thanks in advance!
MattD ....Would like to eventually run 3-4 trains, but just 2 for now would be fine. Will have 8-10 turnouts. I'm looking for a DCC system that can handle (for now), 2 sound-equipped locos, and program accessory decoders for my turnouts and a few accessory lights....I have narrowed it down to: Want to stay at $150, could go to $200, and found power cab at $150 online. -Which system would you recommend?
....Would like to eventually run 3-4 trains, but just 2 for now would be fine. Will have 8-10 turnouts. I'm looking for a DCC system that can handle (for now), 2 sound-equipped locos, and program accessory decoders for my turnouts and a few accessory lights....I have narrowed it down to:
Let's back up a minute to your requirements. Everybody likes to talk in terms of number of trains running. I prefer to speak of number of operators - each operator capable of running one train simultaneously with the other operators. Neither DC nor DCC is really concerned with trains that are not running at any given point in time. Some do run more than one train per operator, but I see that as folly for several reasons unless one's layout is deliberately configured for display running of trains on independent (not shared) track. But the real reason for counting operators instead of trains is that will likely drive the at-completion configuration and price of your DCC system.
On a 10x8 L shape, are you really going to have 4 operators with trains moving simultaneously? Do you have somebody who operates with you on a regular basis now (for the 2nd train on the 4x8)?
Each operator is going to want a throttle assigned to them while they are running a train. All the under $200 starter sets only come with one throttle. But the cost of adding additional throttles varies widely, depending on how many and what features are wanted in the other throttles. Once you know your likely end point, you can look at how the starter system begins you, and what will have to be added at a later date. Price the end point out for the various makes if price is more important than throttle feel and ease of use as you plan to use them.
It's highly unlikely you will remain below $200 for even a 2 throttle setup. The cheapest route to extra throttles is going to be the Zephyr Xtra with 2 "jump" throttles that you build yourself.
If you are truly going to have 4 operators in a relatively small space, then you may want to consider wireless throttles. Although more costly, wireless throttles avoid the tangling of tethers and unplugging/plugging in as the operators move around. Of course, if you intend for all operators to remain in fixed locations, tethers aren't such a big deal.
Just as a track plan benefits greatly by envisioning the operations scheme upon it before starting construction, so does envisioning layout operations with live operators before purchasing a DCC system.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
to the forums!
The digitrax Zephyr Xtra system is also available to you at about $170.
here is one site..both trusted for sales and held high as an industry dealer:
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Digitrax-ZEPHYR-XTRA-Complete-DCC-Starter-System-w-p/dig-zepx.htm
It has a 3 amp system right out of the box. If your locos draw one amp each {with sound}, then you should be fine. You can expand with boosters if you'd like in the future.
Here is their instruction manual for you to read before you buy:
http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/ZephyrXtraManual.pdf
Good luck!
{I have the Bachmann EZ Command DCC system..precurser to the Dynamis, and I love it, but it doesn't control much in the way of sounds for your locos}
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Hi Matt, I's on your situation one year back and when talked with friends and read a lot of post about dcc I decided for NCe Power Cab. I've a small layout like you and beleive it's so easy to use it that i'm 100% happy, with this kit.I think that for what you have in mind, it will work perfect!
Good luck, and tell us what you did!
A common misconception among newcomers is the ability to control turnouts from your throttle. It's a capability of DCC, but it's not a requirement of DCC. I still control all my turnouts the old-fashioned way, with a track-schematic control panel.
You can always add this capability later, but if you're trying to keep your costs down, you don't need to buy those accessory decoders right away.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Matt,
Of the two systems listed I would go with the Power Cab. The upgrade path for the Dynamis is - to me - full of thorns and overpriced. Another very good starter system is the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra.
I've had my Power Cab since early 2006 on my 4 x 8 layout and I've been very pleased with it. The upgrade path to the Smart Booster (SB3a) and/or the PH Pro system is straightforward and your Power Cab automatically becomes a ProCab throttle; so you lose nothing in the process.
One really nice feature about the Power Cab is that - since it's a command station/booster/throttle all rolled-up-into-one - it's portable and you can use it both at your layout AND at your bench for programming. The downside is that since power is routed through the Power Cab, if you disconnect it from the PCP panel you shut down the entire layout.
That's remedied with the addition of the SB3a because the SB3a then becomes the command station/booster. For you current needs though the Power Cab should work just fine for you.
I'm with MB above on using any DCC system for operating turnouts, Matt. A simple throw of a toggle is just way easier than trying to remember the address for a particular turnout then pressing the correct sequence of buttons - all on the fly. Nope, too complicated. However, you can do that with the Power Cab.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I'll throw in another endorsement for the NCE Power Cab, and (although I have NCE) second place to the Digitrax Zephyr. Both are readily expandable over time. I see many newcomers interested in the starter Bachmann system based on price, but it just seems so lacking in functionality and expandability that I have a tough time endorsing it. Once you start pricing upgrades it loses any initial cost advantage quickly. Also, since your local user pool for NCE and Digitrax is likely to include experienced modelers, it should be easier to get help with either of those if something goes wrong. I'm not sure I've encountered a veteran DCC user who owns a Bachmann system.
Rob Spangler
Asking which DCC system to buy is like asking what brand of car to buy. Unless they have had a bad experience, most people will recommend the one they own. After all, that is why they bought it. A better question might be: "Why did you choose the system that you bought?"
I only have personal experience with two systems; the Bachmann EZCommand, and the Digitrax Super Chief that I bought when I realized how primitive the Bachmann system is.
You need to choose the system that fulfills YOUR needs and future desires. You WILL eventually find more things you want your system to do, and manufacturers WILL keep improving their products. That means that ease of expanding and upgrading is very important in your decision.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
MattD Eventually it will expand.
If you're going to want to expand it, get the Zephyr. Then, when you decide to expand, you can without replacing any parts or losing any functionality.
Want more throttles (up to 20)? Plug 'em into the LocoNet.
Need more amperage (boosters)? Plug 'em into the LocoNet.
Want stationary decoders with routes (DS64's)? Plug 'em into the LocoNet.
Want IR control (UR90's)? Plug 'em into the LocoNet.
Want simplex (UR91) or duplex (UR92) radio? Plug 'em into the LocoNet.
Want detection, signalling, power control/districts, etc (BDL168, SE8c, PM42, etc)? Plug 'em into the LocoNet.
Want to use 3rd party DCC products like Team Digital, CML, RRCirkits, etc that integrate seamlessly with your DCC system? Plug 'em into the LocoNet.
Want complete access to all your throttle bus traffic and commands via a computer interface (PR3 or LocoBuffer) for ease of programming, layout automation, etc, instead of the partial solution offered by the other vendor? Yup, you got it: Plug 'em into the LocoNet!
. If you are going with a starter set, using DCC power to power turnouts and lighting reduces the power available to run locos. better to use a separate power source for this. I use 9v plug in transformers(wallwart) for turnouts and lighting and it works fine. An old train transformer would also work.
floridaflyer . If you are going with a starter set, using DCC power to power turnouts and lighting reduces the power available to run locos. better to use a separate power source for this. I use 9v plug in transformers(wallwart) for turnouts and lighting and it works fine. An old train transformer would also work.
Not true. A DS64 stationary decoder for the Digitrax system is powered by a 14V power supply of it's own. It does not use track power for switches, crossing signals, or lights.
Mr.B has pointed out an important truth. Newcomers who research DCC and come away intimidated have confused what DCC CAN do with what it MUST do. DCC has great capability and therefor sounds complicated. But most of that stuff is optional and can just be ignored if you don't need it.
At the basic level it can control one or more trains as easily as DC, in fact easier than DC. It can then easily grow with you as your experience and skills increase.
Stevert If you're going to want to expand it, get the Zephyr. Then, when you decide to expand, you can without replacing any parts or losing any functionality.
Although other DCC systems can also be expanded without losing functionality, Digitrax has done a VERY good job emphasizing this aspect with their product line, as well as allowing so much functionality within their LocoNet setup.
Thanks everyone for all the replies! To answer a few folks' questions:
1. No, just one operator for now, but layout is designed to run two trains simultaneously with one operator.
2. More than one operator and/or 3-4 trains is a ways off - perhaps a year or more, as I will be moving soon as have to redo my layout.
3. I hear you on turnout/accessories not requiring DCC - but it's a capability I want to have so I can eventually program routes in the future.
4. I'm hearing a general consensus that while Bachmann works, Power cab is more capable out of the box and easier to upgrade.
5. Relating to the question of turnouts: will be going with DC powered for, like you suggested, the sake of simplicity for now. However, I just can't get over the switches that come with turnouts, they're just so cheap and flimsy. Poked around my hardware store and found simple light switches cost $.59! Can these be wired to switch standard Atlas remote turnouts?
Thanks again everyone, appreciate everyone's advice and opinions!
MattD Thanks everyone for all the replies! To answer a few folks' questions: 4. I'm hearing a general consensus that while Bachmann works, Power cab is more capable out of the box and easier to upgrade. 5. Relating to the question of turnouts: will be going with DC powered for, like you suggested, the sake of simplicity for now. However, I just can't get over the switches that come with turnouts, they're just so cheap and flimsy. Poked around my hardware store and found simple light switches cost $.59! Can these be wired to switch standard Atlas remote turnouts?
4} Yes, the power cab would be better perhaps than the Dynamis. You also had several votes for the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra. The choice for any system will be up to you.
5} If I understand your question right, the answer would be a resounding NO. You need a "Single-pole, double-throw momentary action {Key words: momentary action}" switch to control your Atlas turnnouts. A "simple light switch" is either ON or OFF. If you left it ON it would fry your Atlas Remote switch machine!
Here is where you can get Atlas's version of the SPDT Momentary switch designed for their trunout/switches:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=None&Item=150Other&ID=200300601
Thanks Galaxy!
Been trying to do a lot of reading on control panels, turnout status lights, and switches. I now understand that I need a momentary switch and can wire it to LED status lights on the control panel. Haha, would have been nice if it was as simple as a light switch, obviously not! Found some diagrams online but have been having diffculty with understanding how to wire together the switch, the Atlas turnout, LED lights, and a relay switch. Best site so far out of six that I've found: www.awrr.com/indicator.html. Anyone have other suggestions, or better yet, a diagram?
The simplest panel switch controller that I have seen for twin coil switch machines is a diagram with nails driven completely through it and wired to the switch motors. The power was then wired to a wooden handle ice pick. The switch was thrown by touching the appropriate nail head with the ice pick.
I, on the other hand, use DS64s.
Matt: As a beginner also, my Dad, who has been modeling since the early 60's talked me into the NCE Power cab and i am glad he did. I just wish I had gotten the 5 amp system rather than the 2 amp system. Out of the box i was running a true DCC locomotive with sound in less than 5 minutes. No i am hooked. Such a simple system, easy to use and can be upgraded if you are willing to spend some $$. The only thing is wish i had done differently is spring for the IR version as i find that i must lay my cab down to manually throw some switches. This will be correctly in the near future with dcc controlled switches that will be operated from the cab.
Have fun with your hobby, and good luck!
Hey Matt,
I'm new to DCC and bought my first controller last year. I got the NCE Power Cab (eBay $150) and I really like it. I was running in five minutes and programming CVs that night. It's very intuitive and easy to use. One thing I recommend is to look up the manuals online for any system and print them out. Also check youtube for videos using various controllers. Read the manuals and watch the videos and you will see which one seems like the one you want to use.
Casey
I like the simplicity of this to start, but where I really want to get to is having a control panel with LED status indicators. Only problem for me is figuring out the wiring. That one class from back in college a decade ago is not co,ing back to me so easily, hahahaha!
CHeck out the use of servos for the switch motors then. Tam Valley Depot has controllers that have the buttons and LEDs already in them, the hookup is a 3 wire cable from the servo to the controlelr that just plugs in.. They can be used with DCC or not.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If you have an interest in doing some soldering - you can make your own Lenz system for about $30.
Check out http://usuaris.tinet.cat/fmco/nanox_en.html
The simple NanoX is a 1.5 amp system - basic controls (funct 0-12), up to 16 locos. Similar to the Zephyr. Simple to build - it's just one microchip, 4 transistors and an assortment of simple components.
It's fully Lenz compatible, so will work with Lenz throttles and accessories, in addition to Roco and Atlas DCC. It also works with JMRI for full computer control including using your iPhone/android as a wireless throttle. Need more power? Build a booster or buy one. It plugs right into the XpresNet (Lenz version of Loconet). Same with throttles. Boosters can be built also. Lots of plans for those too.
The site also has plans for simple and advance throttles, including wireless ones.
Also, consider using servos for turnouts. If you check out the Octopus controller by Tam Valley Depot gives you control for 8 servos for $32. That's $4 per servo. Low costs servos run less than $4 each. Looking at $8 per turnout (or less). Compared to Tortoise at $15 each not including control hardware. The Octopus allows you to use DPDT switches to both control the servos and switch the polarity of the turnout.