Hello again. I just received the 15 turnouts for the upcoming HO DCC layout, all Walthers Shinohara code 83 latest model numbers. Now that I see the physical items, some questions:
a) I see the details on how the points are hinged with the rail joiner; i.e., the points side appears to be soldered to the joiner, and the frog end of the joiner is (very) loose on the closure(?) rail to provide free movement. I take it from this that the electrical connection for the point of the selected route is depending on point-to-stock rail contact, not the loose rail joiner. Do most find that an added jumper for each point is the smart way to go? If so, how to best install? The turnouts will be laid on cork roadbed, and of course must lay flat atop. I think I have a web printout that suggests jumpering somehow with flex wire on the turnout (all above the cork). Alternately, I presume I could prewire a flex wire to the point near the rail joiner and connect it below the subgrade to the same connection as the stock rail, correct?? What do you suggest to get these points wired without risking damaging the switch?
b) I plan to power the frogs from the Tortoise contacts. How do you suggest connecting at the frog? I'm considering using the method suggested by A. Sperandeo in Realistic Reliable Track of making pseudo-spikes of 22AWG soild wire, that go to a connection below the layout. Would I just use that anywhere at the frog? What are alternate ways to connect wire to the frog and track...e.g., simply soldering 22AWG wire to the rail? Your comments here will help me decide which way to on both the turnouts and the rest of the track., I see the separate thread on suitcase connectors/etc on underlayout wiring so will study thaf for the subterranean wiring.
Thanks!
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
On question (a), might a way to go be to solder a flex wire to the rail joiner underneath, since the joiner is soldered to the point side? That would provide good contact and freedom of movement if I make the wire hole in the roadbed relatively large?? Still, what do I connect the wire to underneath?
If you flip it over and look underneath is there little jumper wires from the stock rails to the point rails? Do you really have to power the frogs? How long are they? I do not have any experience with the type you mentioned but I believe they are drop in place with feeders to all following rails.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I was perhaps using incorrect terminology. The point rails (moving part) are joined to the closure rails by a metal (conducting) rail joiner, so the closure piece goes toward the frog (there interrupted by its frog insulator) and the other (moving) piece (point rail) ends at the insulated throwbar (thus isolated there from the other point). The closure rail segment (near the frog) is jumpered underneath to the stock rail, but the moving (point rail) piece between the joiner and the throwbar gets power only via the (loose) rail joiner or via the stock rail to when it is thrown against it. Seems a bit iffy for the point rail portion so that an (often suggested) jumper to the moving part (the point rail) would prevent power interruption due to the rail joiner looseness if combined with imperfect pickup of the point against the stock rail (when closed to it). The A. Gartner "Wiring for DCC" item on "Walthers New DCC Compatible Turnouts" suggests powering the frogs and "for long, reliable operation" to connect the point rails (the moving part) to either the associated bus wiring or with a jumper across the rail joiner at the turnout itself. He shows how the latter approach can be done with a very short jumper across the rail joiner (from point rail to closure rail) below the ties but that requires gouging room foe the wire to cross the ties under the rail by gouging the ties or the roadbed or both...that's where I'm confused, plus it looks like a good way for me to damage something. Perhaps that's why he says he prefers the point jumper going to the bus. So the questions are whether to independently power the points and how exactly to do it. I prefer to address at installation and not have to mess with glued, ballasted track after the fact if problems arise.
On the frog powering, it's more straightforward as I can run from a 22AWG "spike" or soldered wire 9to the rail) to the Tortoise. The frogs as received are isolated (unpowered) and I have # 5, 6, 7-1/2 curved, and 8 turnouts. The frog length is 1-3/16" for #5 (shortest) to 1-15/16" for #8 (longest).
You can add a small piece of thin wire to the point rails if you like too. I have never found a reason to do such a thing. The contact with the stock rail from a switch machine should be enough pressure to make good contact. Even on our club layout using just an over center spring there is enough contact for reliable transmission of electrons. If there were no wires from the stock rails to the closure rails leading to the frog then I would definitely add a feeder and a jumper wire to the points. The loose joiner is just the hinge and not meant for reliable feeding. The pressure of the point should be enough for reliable pickup.
Powered frogs are another matter. Our club powers the frogs from contacts from the over center springs under the layout. I have all hand laid turnouts at home with isolated frogs and even the smallest of switchers have no issues. My frogs are shorter than most so only one wheel and maybe two (on my smallest steamers) will be on the dead frog at any one time.
Just this morning I finished installing a Walthers-Shinohara double cross over, on cork roadbed. I used Caboose ground throws with the electrical contacts, only because it's at the front of the layout. Set the turnout in place, mark where the frog is, get the turnout out of the way and drill a hole all the way through the layout. Next turn the turnout over and cut the little pieces of connecting plastic out from under the frog. Get your soldering iron good and hot ( I use a 25w) and tin the frog. Cut your wire longer than you need and tin it. With both parts tinned, it makes quick work of connecting the two. I have several other of their turnouts and they are operated with tortoise machines. All my turnouts are power routed. I prewire the machines. This helps cut down the time under the layout. As for the closing rails, I have turnouts that have been in place for over 4 years, problem free, the way they come. I also have friends that wouldn't put a turnout in place without jumpering everything. I don't worry about the roadbed. I just dig it out where it needs to be. When the track is ballasted you will never know you did.
Have fun
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!
I didn't initially power the frogs on my turnouts. I found that I needed to power some, while I have no problems with others. It may be some selection of which engines are going over which turnouts, and how fast the trains are moving.
I would suggest as others have that you pre-wire the frog on your bench, and drop the wire through as you install the turnout. That way, it's there if you need it, and the wire won't show. In my case, I ended up adding the wire by soldering it to the frog on the outside of the rail, on the side away from the viewer. It's inobtrusive and I doubt anyone but a purist would notice it, but I should have done it before I installed the turnout for a cleaner look.
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