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New to DCC

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  • Member since
    October 2011
  • 7 posts
New to DCC
Posted by B&O Bradley on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:39 PM

I don't want to start an "opinion war", but I am looking for a little guidance. 

I am starting my first DCC layout, and I have read all kinds of advertising on the systems available.

NCE  PH Pro -vs- Digitrax Super Chief, etc.......

I am running an "N" scale layout with 3-4 locos.......two of which may be on the same consist.

Is any of these better than the other, easier for a first timer, more easily upgradable, etc......

Any advise on which way to roll would be appreciated.

thanx,

B&O Bradley

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Spanaway, WA
  • 787 posts
Posted by SMassey on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:35 PM

Only running 3 or 4 locos in N scale you can get away with a system like the Digitrax Zephyr with no issues.  The Zephyr or Zephyr Extra will provide enough power, the command station is a full feature command station with the ability to read back decoders CV values.  It is upgradable as your modeling grows and does not become obsolete when you add a Super Chief or Empire builder set to the mix.  Digitrax is my personal preferance and it is what I would buy in your position.  Digitrax has if you ask me thought their stuff out a little better than the others have. 

 

Massey

A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:01 AM

Bradley

You might also consider the NCE PowerCab. In its base form it is a 2 amp system but it can be upgraded in the future with a 5 amp booster. In its base form it will handle several properly performing locomotives all at once (by 'properly performing' I mean locomotives that draw reasonably low amps which is the case with almost all newer products).You won't need to upgrade until you are running a whole lot of locomotives on your layout all at the same time.

It can read back CVs, and it is very comfortable and intuitive to use. The base system comes with its own power supply built in.

I have never used a Digitrax system, but when I look at the faces of their cabs I immediately 'freeze' mentally because the functions are largely controlled by numbered but not labelled buttons. My tiny brain would be challenged trying to remember which button does what.

I am sure that practise would overcome the Digitrax function control issue but with the NCE PowerCab I was using it very comfortably in just a few seconds.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 17, 2011 5:23 AM

Well, there you go, one vote for the Digitraz Zephyr and one vote for the NCE Power Cab.  These are probably the two most reliable starter systems.

I use the NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system.  You may want to consider a larger DCC system such as the NCE PH-Pro, so you can put future expansion issues behind you at the start.  If you are like so many of the rest of us, once you start a layout, you will eventually be looking to make it larger.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Metro East St. Louis
  • 5,743 posts
Posted by simon1966 on Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:12 AM

How many people would you like to be able to run trains at the same time, now and in the future?   This might be a deciding factor to consider.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,878 posts
Posted by maxman on Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:42 PM

B&O Bradley

I don't want to start an "opinion war", but I am looking for a little guidance. 

NCE  PH Pro -vs- Digitrax Super Chief, etc.......

I am running an "N" scale layout with 3-4 locos.......two of which may be on the same consist.

Is any of these better than the other, easier for a first timer, more easily upgradable, etc......

Any advise on which way to roll would be appreciated.

thanx,

B&O Bradley

Unfortunately, this question always starts a war.  You asked about the PowerPro and the SuperChief, and already you are getting answers suggesting the PowerCab and the Zepher.  Any of the four systems will do what you have suggested you want to do.  Both the PowerCab and the Zepher are upgradeable if you need to do so.  And you can expand the PowerPro and SuperChief if you eventually require more power.  Both manufacturers make a good product.  Both systems connect to the railroad in basically the same manner.

So, in my mind, it comes down to what you might find more ergonomic.

If you want to "roll" somewhere, you should roll to the nearest dealer of each product.  Ask them to show you how the system works.  Ask them how you consist engines.  Ask them how you change CVs.  Hold the handsets and see how they feel.

If someone tells you his particular system is "best", ignore that person.  What's best for him is not necessarily best for you.  And don't fall into the "everyone around here uses system "P", so that's what you should get" trap.  Especially if you are not a member of a club.  And even if you are a member of a club, why be a lemming and buy the same thing if you don't like the features?

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:35 PM

 The F buttons ont he PowerCab aren't labeled either, other than numbers. You want F8, you press the number 8 on either system. Not sure I get this particular 'complaint'. There's not actually a universal convention as for which function is which sound, although MOST manufactures use F1 for bell, and F2 for horn. ANd F0 for lights, has always been the accepted standard. On every Digitrax throttle, F0 has a light bulb, F1 has a bell, and F2 has a whistlle, along with the numbers.

 More buttons = no 'shift' sequences to try and remember. And as for lots of cuntions, well, all those etra ones are lazy man functions to blow automatic crossing signals, or trigger farm and industry sounds, or radio chatter (on a pre-1920's steam loco!), or other sounds that quitre frankly don't belong on a locomotive. The actual soudns that make sense are usually on the first 12 functions, or can be programmed as such, makign it easy to access them with no switching between 'modes' or shift key operations. On ANY system.

                                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:25 PM

maxman
And don't fall into the "everyone around here uses system "P", so that's what you should get" trap.  Especially if you are not a member of a club.  And even if you are a member of a club, why be a lemming and buy the same thing if you don't like the features?

On the other side of that coin there are many good reasons to be a lemming.   When one is working with the same system as the club there are synergies with both equipment and experience.    It is really nice to take one's own throttle to the club to use.  Or to borrow club equipment for a home operating system.   LIkewise one can take their throttle to other club members layouts to operate.   It is nice to be able to share knowledge and have others with the same system that can help trouble shoot.  If it works at home and not at the club means completely differerent things if the two base systems are different.  

Another possible benefit is cost.  Club members all go to gether to purchase equipment in bulk,  as such  the volume so high we get a really good discounts.   A vendor is much more likely to give a discount is someone is buying 10 new boosters rather than 1. 

  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
  • 4,075 posts
Posted by fwright on Friday, November 18, 2011 3:35 PM

maxman

....And even if you are a member of a club, why be a lemming and buy the same thing if you don't like the features?

If you are a member of a club, you should expect to conform to the club specs - whatever they are or become - when model railroading with the club.  Anything else is joining under false pretenses, and will eventually cause frustration or worse for one or both parties.  Doesn't mean you can't work for change or evolution in the standards, but if your expectation is that the club will suddenly see everything your way and dump theirs....then you are truly a super-salesman (with arrogance to match).  Bottom line - you should take club specs into consideration before joining.  If the specs really rub you wrong, then don't join.

The issue of specs is especially important in a modular group or club.  If you are even considering becoming a modular mr down the road, it's worth checking out the standards for your favorite group.  If the modular group chooses system A as the standard, then you need to use system A or face double expenses for a separate control system at home.  And using two systems requires two learning curves in addition to the extra expense.

My disclaimer - I have discovered modular railroading (HOn3 Free-mo) and think it's a great way to grow in the hobby, and achieve what I don't have the resources (space, time, and money) to achieve at home.  FWIW, our group settled on NCE.  So the purchase of a Power Cab for home and module setup use is now in the top 3 of my planned major purchases.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

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    February 2008
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Posted by maxman on Friday, November 18, 2011 3:56 PM

fwright

 maxman:

....And even if you are a member of a club, why be a lemming and buy the same thing if you don't like the features?

 

If you are a member of a club, you should expect to conform to the club specs - whatever they are or become - when model railroading with the club.  Anything else is joining under false pretenses, and will eventually cause frustration or worse for one or both parties.  Doesn't mean you can't work for change or evolution in the standards, but if your expectation is that the club will suddenly see everything your way and dump theirs....then you are truly a super-salesman (with arrogance to match).  Bottom line - you should take club specs into consideration before joining.  If the specs really rub you wrong, then don't join.

Fred W

I was not saying anything about not conforming to club specs, or getting them to dump their system, or any other such thing.  And I don't know how you came to that conclusion.  If someone wants to join a club, and the club happens to be using system "X", then the most someone would have to buy would be a controller (handset), and you can find them without paying an arm and a leg if you are willing to forego the "I need a brand new one" urge.

But if one doesn't like the features of system "X" and feels more comfortable with system "Y", there is absolutely no reason why one cannot have system "Y" at home.

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: Colorado
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Posted by fwright on Friday, November 18, 2011 4:36 PM

maxman

I was not saying anything about not conforming to club specs, or getting them to dump their system, or any other such thing.  And I don't know how you came to that conclusion....

I came to the conclusion because it is a logical follow-on, based on my experience with clubs and teams.  If you have Digitrax at home, you chose it for what in your mind were very good reasons.  If the club is using NCE for what in their minds are very good reasons, then the 2 positions are automatically at odds with each other.  The earnest Digitrax home user will want the club to shift to Digitrax because that's what he knows and understands.  The same is true for the opposite.  I have seen clubs lose members over switching to DCC from DC, and switching DCC systems (interesting that the 2 club switches I have seen are from Digitrax to NCE).

If, OTOH, the club member doesn't have a strong opinion one way or the other, then logic says why spend twice and learn twice.  Just use at home what the club uses. 

But if one doesn't like the features of system "X" and feels more comfortable with system "Y", there is absolutely no reason why one cannot have system "Y" at home.

I gave my reasons for conforming to what the club is using, as have others.  Can you go against the club choice at home?  Certainly.  But I submit that if you are dissatisfied enough with club choices to spend serious money to go in the opposite direction at home, you and the club probably do not have a long and happy future together.  

Fred W

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,878 posts
Posted by maxman on Friday, November 18, 2011 10:59 PM

Texas Zepher

 maxman:
And don't fall into the "everyone around here uses system "P", so that's what you should get" trap.  Especially if you are not a member of a club.  And even if you are a member of a club, why be a lemming and buy the same thing if you don't like the features?
On the other side of that coin there are many good reasons to be a lemming.   When one is working with the same system as the club there are synergies with both equipment and experience.    It is really nice to take one's own throttle to the club to use.  Or to borrow club equipment for a home operating system.   LIkewise one can take their throttle to other club members layouts to operate.   It is nice to be able to share knowledge and have others with the same system that can help trouble shoot.  If it works at home and not at the club means completely differerent things if the two base systems are different.  

Another possible benefit is cost.  Club members all go to gether to purchase equipment in bulk,  as such  the volume so high we get a really good discounts.   A vendor is much more likely to give a discount is someone is buying 10 new boosters rather than 1. 

Well, all I can say is that you Colorado folks are entitled to your opinions.  Here in the east I belong to a club that uses X.  There is another local club that uses Y.  Once a month some members of each club get together with others (non-club folks) and have an opportunity  to operate on a third party's railroad.  He also does not belong to a club.  This third party started with Z, changed to X, changed to Y, and then changed back to X when Y didn't satisfy his requirements.   Everyone gets along, at least control system wise.

I'm pretty sure that some of the X people have Y handsets to use when they visit others, and the Y people do the same.

Concerning cost, that's a bogus point unless the entire club is initially moving from DC to DCC.  Someone joining an already DCC club is not going to have the advantage of any volume discount.  And from what I see around here, there is no such thing as that anyway.  The only way I see anyone getting a discount from list is by purchasing mail order.  Of course, I'm a little reluctant to go to the local DCC dealer, who carries both X and Y, for assistance should he happen to find out that the mail order purchase was made.

And this business of expertice is also slightly over-rated.  If other clubs are like the one I belong to, most of the members are just happy to be able to dial up an engine and get it to move.  If something doesn't work, all they'll do is complain.  So, unless there is some member who's only interest is electronics and things electric, the "expert" is the member who has muddled through the problem before and remembers the solution.

I agree totally that if you join a club and all the members have agreed that they will sit on seats with a spring poking them in the butt on meeting nights, then that is a condition of membership.  But that does not mean that you have to sit on those kind of chairs at home.

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