When I run a train on my layout when it goes across a turnout my DigiTrax Zephyr controller flashes the shorting out message for a split second. It happens with all turnouts and it doesn't stop the train or anything but I'm still concerned that this might be a problem. I use Atlas code 83 snap switches. Got any ideas as to why this is? Thanks!
Modeling New Haven despite what his user name says...
Is it flashing a short on the locomotive or the whole train? Do all your cars have metal wheels?
You seem to be saying that this momentary short happens on every turnout with every engine. Is this correct?
Rich
Alton Junction
Look at the part of the frog where the rails almost come together. A wheel on the loco's may be bridging these rails of opposite polarity causing a quick short circuit. Paint on some nail polish or enamel paint about 1/8" to 1/4" past the plastic frog point. Let it dry and see if it helps.
I've narrowed it down to it happens only when the loco is in reverse and going across a turnout with its points leading to the curved part of it. It happens with or without any cars so I'm assuming it's the loco but it's fine when it's going forwards...
Here's the spot where shorts usually occur. Some people coat the inside of the rails with nail polish at this spot. Others file the gap a little larger. I've filed the gap with good results.
Springfield PA
Hamltnblue Here's the spot where shorts usually occur. Some people coat the inside of the rails with nail polish at this spot. Others file the gap a little larger. I've filed the gap with good results.
Aha, that's exactly where I'm having trouble! I positioned the loco just right over that part of the turnout and got the system to fully short out. I'll test the nail polish fix out on one of them and see how it goes. Thanks for everyone's help!
I don't see anywhere that you mention the type / manufacturer of the locomotive. It seems to be the culprit. I would check to see if the wheels are in gauge. It's an easy fix with most locomotives and better than modifying your turnouts.John Timm
desertdog I don't see anywhere that you mention the type / manufacturer of the locomotive. It seems to be the culprit. I would check to see if the wheels are in gauge. It's an easy fix with most locomotives and better than modifying your turnouts.John Timm
It's an Atlas RS-1. Not sure how to fix the wheel gauge though if that is the problem...
Chessie Sys. 3022 desertdog: I don't see anywhere that you mention the type / manufacturer of the locomotive. It seems to be the culprit. I would check to see if the wheels are in gauge. It's an easy fix with most locomotives and better than modifying your turnouts.John Timm It's an Atlas RS-1. Not sure how to fix the wheel gauge though if that is the problem...
desertdog: I don't see anywhere that you mention the type / manufacturer of the locomotive. It seems to be the culprit. I would check to see if the wheels are in gauge. It's an easy fix with most locomotives and better than modifying your turnouts.John Timm
Well, if it is just that one loco and it happens on all of the turnouts, there is no point in applying nail polish on all of the turnouts. Fix the out of gauge wheels on the loco.
I am having the same problem. I am using a Digitrax Zypher and Atlas code 100 track with #4 an 6 turnouts. I have 2 DCC locos, one a smaller Proto 2000 H10-44 with somewat narrow wheels, the other a Proto 2000 F7-A with slightly wider wheels. The H10-44 runs the turnouts fine and the F7A with wider wheels mometairly shorts out at the turnouts. I have tried nail polish with limited success.
Well the only catch is that it is my only loco so I can't narrow it down to that one loco...
Chessie Sys. 3022 Well the only catch is that it is my only loco so I can't narrow it down to that one loco...
But it sounds like the most likely place to start. I have several Atlas locomotives, but not an RS-1. However, if it is like the others, the fix is not hard and in doing so you will learn something about maintaining and repairing it. The Atlas website has instructions on how to take off the shell. You really don't have to do so, but it is a way to keep from breaking or losing parts while the unit is upside down.
First, get an NMRA gauge and check all four axles. If you have never disassembled a locomotive, it is easier than it appears. Just go slowly and be patient. If something falls out, look at the exploded diagram that came in the original box and put it back in the right place.
There is a plastic clip on the bottom of each truck that holds everything together under tension. Once you slip the clip off with a (very) small screwdriver, the axles should drop right out. If the gauge is wide, finger pressure between the thumb and forefinger on the center of both wheels should push it into gauge. If the gauge is too narrow, twist one wheel in one direction and the other in the opposite direction simultaneously while pulling outward on both wheels. Check with the gauge to see if the axle is in spec. If so, re-assemble the truck and run it through the turnout without the shell (if the headlight is wired to the shell, this may not be possible. You don't want to tear out any wires).
Let us know what happens or if you get stuck.
John Timm
Another thing that has worked for me is to take a flat blade screwdriver and put it in the gap. Then twist a little bit to open the gap some. Be careful though.
Also check the guard rail opposite of the gap. Sometimes there is too much room in the guard rail which allows the wheel to shift over.
Yeah, but that's the point. If it is your only loco and it shorts on all of the turnouts, then it has the be the loco not the turnouts.
I had a few trains that would do it. I found that if you can tune the turnout, then you won't have to worry about wobbly wheels from re-gauging the loco. Also you'll have less potential trouble with future loco's. Once I tuned the few I had issues with the problems didn't re-appear.
Well I'd rather avoid having to modify all my turnouts and not actually fix the problem with the loco. I found a spare loco with DCC that I ran on the layout and it had no problems with the switches, so it must be my RS-1. I'll try and get my hands on a gauge and see what happens.
Good Luck
So now I'm really confused... I got a gauge and checked the RS-1's wheels, everything seemed fine. So I got curious and picked up the other loco I tested the track with... Seemed fine as well. Something doesn't seem right here...
It may be that the wheels are in gauge but they are shifted to one side of the axle so that the truck is skewed going into the turnout. I have seen this happen a few times. Without pulling the axles out of the truck it would be hard to tell.
Ummmm, maybe it's the turnout?
Hamltnblue Ummmm, maybe it's the turnout?
Well I thought this but then I thought, EVERY turnout? :|
Think I should pop open the wheel things and take a look at the axles? I'd rather try and avoid doing so but if it's how I have to fix it, so be it.
desertdog It may be that the wheels are in gauge but they are shifted to one side of the axle so that the truck is skewed going into the turnout. I have seen this happen a few times. Without pulling the axles out of the truck it would be hard to tell. John Timm
That is REAL easy to have happen with split axle type systems like Athearn and Proto 2000. They don;t push in all the way - that makes the gauge too tight. But if you only back one out until the gauge shows correct, they are off center and will skew the truck. Even if it doesn't short anything, it sure can cause derailments at turnouts as the points get picked or at the frog.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
So I'm guessing my solution is to pull the axles out and fix them?
Just check before you pull anything. Looking at the trucks upside-down, the wheels should be equally distant from the center of the truck where the gears are - and have equal play as you wiggle them. If they only wiggle one way and are obviously to one side or the other - then yes, remove them and adjust so that they stick out of the gear in equal amounts, and recheck the wheel gauge.
BTW is it definitely shorting, or just loosing power? Try this test - on straight track, put one truck deliberately on the ground so it's not on the rails. See if it runs. Then try the other truck. If it has WORKIGN all-wheel pickup, it should be fine with either truck off the rails. If it's liek the first AThearn RS-3 I got, it won;t run at all with one of the trucks off the rails, indicating no power pickup from one side on the truck that was left on the rails. This will cause a hesitation on an unpowered frog, if not a complete stall. But not a short.
It's absolutely a short, when it passes over a switch in reverse the short message flashes quickly and I hear the "cht" sound, and if I manually push the loco over a switch to a certain spot it can fully short out the whole system. I'll poke around and see what I can find and let you know.
Edit: Huh, I opened up and got to the axles and everything is fine... It's all in gauge and even. So maybe it is the turnouts?
Chessie Sys. 3022 It's absolutely a short, when it passes over a switch in reverse the short message flashes quickly and I hear the "cht" sound, and if I manually push the loco over a switch to a certain spot it can fully short out the whole system. I'll poke around and see what I can find and let you know. Edit: Huh, I opened up and got to the axles and everything is fine... It's all in gauge and even. So maybe it is the turnouts?
Does it short regardless of the direction of the locomotive through the turnouts or just in one direction?
Chessie Sys. 3022 Edit: Huh, I opened up and got to the axles and everything is fine... It's all in gauge and even. So maybe it is the turnouts?
Yeah, but, all of the turnouts? Doubt it. Somerthing is up with that loco.
Liek I said, creep into a turnout. WHen it shorts and stalls, take note of EXACTLY where the wheels are. The only way there shoudl be a short is if a wheel is simultaneously touching two rails that are insualted from one another by a plastic gap filler. If the wheel treads are wide enough to span the insulator, it will short. It is entirely possible that this loco has marginally wider wheel trads than others you have, and so is the only one to have this problem, which, dependign on manufacturing tolerances, would probably happen at every single turnout.