My 23 year old layout is all Shinohara Code 70 track and turnouts. All turnouts are power routed, solid frog via either slow motion stall motors or by micro slide switches attached to the turnout slide bar. " ie" manual finger throw. I want to switch the whole layout to DCC. Are my power routed turnouts OK for DCC wired the DC method, or do I have to change the power routing? The layout works flawlessly after all these years using the DC method from years ago, however I sure would like to run trains on the same track without so many blocks to remember.
Yes, you will need to modify those older turnouts for DCC operation. But it is quite simple. I have a few of the older turnouts on my layout. I cut a gap about a quarter inch away from the frog in the two rails leading away from the frog. You will then need separate feeders to power the rails beyond the gaps. Be sure to fill the gaps with something so the rails will not work themselves back together (don't ask me how I know). I epoxied a small piece of 0.020 styrene in the gaps, then after the glue dried carved the styrene so the wheels would clear.
Years ago a club I belonged to also modified the throw bars so the point rails were isolated from each other. Not sure I know why. I didn't do that on mine and they work flawlessly on my DCC powered system.
Good luck!
Roger Johnson
If looks are not so important in terms of the shape and size of the gap you cut, you can use a cut-off disk. Otherwise, you can get and use a jeweler's saw with a fine filamental blade. This latter choice will leave a hairline gap hardly detectable. However, it would be wise, in view of the recommendations just above, to CA the rails beyond the gap in a couple of places so that they stick better to their ties.
I had to modify curved W/S turnouts by gapping them, but I have not found that I needed to fill the gaps...the frog rails stay where they were placed during manufacturing.
Crandell
I have several 'old school' Shinohara turnouts on my layout. Other than the usual gapping at the frogs(DC as well), I have had no problems when I converted to DCC. The rub here is that if you have a derailment and short across the turnout, you can shut down the entire railroad(or power district).
The big issue seems to be long wheelbase steam shorting out between the stock rail and the adjacent point rail. With a DCC 'Friendly' turnout, that does not happen. I would do some testing before 'butchering' your turnouts...
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I would recommend converting the layout to DCC and then check for shorts in actual operation. Odds are - things will work fine without doing anything to the switches.
I personally know of one very large old school layout,, that uses large numbers of shinohara power routing turn outs. This layout was recently converted to DCC. NONE of the switches were modified and there weren't any problems with shorts at all!!! This railroad operates flawlessly and host ops sessions on a regular basis.
Wiring principles for DC and DCC switches are pretty much the same in terms of reliability. Good switch wiring in DC is good wiring in DCC. The only exception is that DCC can't tolerate momentary shorts as well as DC. These shorts happen most often when the back of wheel sets touch the switch point of opposite polarity when rolling through turn outs where the points are of the same polarity (old shinohara power routing turnouts, among others). This problem can usually be solved by tightening up wheel gauge problems.
Power routing turnouts do have drawbacks, bu these are the same regardless of control system used. Cutting gaps and isolating frogs in turnouts that work well to begin with, can cause lots of extra work and headaches, and may be unnecessary....
When building new, I always recommend using DCC friendly turnouts, not just because of the DCC aspect, but because I find them to be more reliable electrically speaking. When I started my new layout I did spend some time re-building old turnouts to meet certain DCC friendly requirements. Never regretted the time spent.
This equation changes when looking at finished layouts that are being converted...Try it and see how it works first. Then fix, if necessary.
Your mileage may vary,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
rgengineoiler My 23 year old layout is all Shinohara Code 70 track and turnouts. All turnouts are power routed, solid frog via either slow motion stall motors or by micro slide switches attached to the turnout slide bar. " ie" manual finger throw. I want to switch the whole layout to DCC. Are my power routed turnouts OK for DCC wired the DC method, or do I have to change the power routing? The layout works flawlessly after all these years using the DC method from years ago, however I sure would like to run trains on the same track without so many blocks to remember.
The power routing works the same in both DC and DCC. So as train nut says, don't do anything to begin with.
With power routing, spurs with turnouts thrown against them will have the power off. Eventually, DCC folks want to play with lights and sounds even when the locomotive is not moving, which means the power routing will need to be bypassed. Power routing doesn't have the benefits in DCC that it has in DC, because locomotive movement is independent of track power. To bypass power routing, you cut gaps in both frog rails (if there aren't any gaps already) and provide full time power beyond the gap via a feeder. The frog contact and frog power always remains as is.
There is a possibility of momentary shorts at the points on the Shinohara turnouts as others have described. But I also wouldn't do anything until you encounter the problem. To fix the problem if/when it occurs, you have to cut the metal link between the 2 points, gap the closure rails to isolate the frog, and attach feeders to each point connecting it electrically to the adjoining stock rail. A fair amount of unnecessary work if you are not experiencing any momentary short circuits at the points.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
You should not have to modify or change anything.
As an old DC guy, you are going to understand DCC wiring better than a lot of the new folks that are getting into the hobby.As an old DC guy myself, I thought the notion of DCC friendly turnouts was a bunch of garbage, and manufacturers were wanting to sell more stuff.In case you don't know, here is the difference between the old style Shinohara types, and the new DCC friendly turnouts:
- In the old style, both points are the same polarity because they are soldered to a metal tie bar / throw bar. So when the point is open, the stock rail is a different polarity than the point rail right next to it. If the space between them is less than it should be, the wheels going between them may short out momentarily. This is more critical to DCC than it was to DC, and will cause a DCC loco to stop or lurch through it.
- With a DCC friendly turnout, the points are not electrically the same polarity. Each point is the same polarity as the stock rail that it is next to. So if the space between them is smaller than it should be, a wheel going between them won't cause a short.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Paint on the back of the point rail (except for near the tip) often makes a good temporary fix for shorts.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net