I'm in the process of designing and building a programming track/programming center. I'm going to be using a Digitrax PR3 and DCC Specialties PowerPax and my laptop using JMRI's DecoderPro. My question is can I get by without using my Zephyr tied into this programming track? I want my programming track to be portable so when I go to Free-Mo meets I can bring it with for programming on the fly. I also want to be able to program at home but I don't like the idea of having to remove the Zephyr from the home layout for programming and then swapping out wires to program and then swap them back to run trains. Can I run motors on the programming track without a Zephyr? Being able to speed match for consisting is going to be crucial to me. Thanks a lot for the assistance here.
John F.Perham, MNRailfan Photography | Modeling HO Scale Trains & O Gauge Trains
With a suitable power supply (in the 16-18v DC range), not only can you use the PR3 as a stand-alone programmer without your Zephyr, but you won't need the PowerPax, either. Save your money for another sound decoder.
Edit: Sorry, I didn't address your other questions.
First, you wouldn't have to dis- or re-connect any wires, because the Zephyr (and the PR3) have separate programming outputs.
Second, for speed matching you'd probably want to use Ops-mode programming (programming on the main), so the programming outputs wouldn't be used anyway...
When using the PR3 in standalone programmer mode, not connected to a command station, there is no need for a Power Pax. The PR3 will read and program any sound decoders that exist.
It will also run a loco but for a very short time. I tried it and was not impressed by that feature.
Jack W.
I would have to disconnect and reconnect wires in the sense that if my Zephyr is connected to my home layout I would need to disconnect it from there and reconnect it to the programming center for programming (if need be) and then back to the layout again when finished programming.
I got the PowerPax because from what I was told and read online certain decoders do not allow for read back without it or some other power boosting device.
jalajoie It will also run a loco but for a very short time. I tried it and was not impressed by that feature.
What do you mean "for a very short time"? Short length in terms of distance or short as in it would wreak havoc on decoders?
You don;t need a PowerPax for a PR3, it works fine on all decoders I've tried, even Tsunami. In fact you really never need a progrma track booster, there's Ops Mode for stubborn decoders.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
jrf What do you mean "for a very short time"? Short length in terms of distance or short as in it would wreak havoc on decoders?
Short length in terms of time, as in seconds.
It will work for a few seconds and stop, you have to restart and it will stop again after a few seconds and so on. If I recall correctly, as it is explained in JMRI this is normal behavior.
jrfI would have to disconnect and reconnect wires in the sense that if my Zephyr is connected to my home layout I would need to disconnect it from there and reconnect it to the programming center for programming (if need be) and then back to the layout again when finished programming.
Nope! As I mentioned before, the PR3, when used in stand-alone mode, has it's own set of programming outputs. Use the PR3 for your "programming center" and leave the Zephyr on your layout.
jrfI got the PowerPax because from what I was told and read online certain decoders do not allow for read back without it or some other power boosting device.
Nope again! As mentioned, when used with a suitable power supply, the PR3 in stand-alone mode doesn't need an external programming booster.
Stevert jrf: I would have to disconnect and reconnect wires in the sense that if my Zephyr is connected to my home layout I would need to disconnect it from there and reconnect it to the programming center for programming (if need be) and then back to the layout again when finished programming. Nope! As I mentioned before, the PR3, when used in stand-alone mode, has it's own set of programming outputs. Use the PR3 for your "programming center" and leave the Zephyr on your layout. jrf: I got the PowerPax because from what I was told and read online certain decoders do not allow for read back without it or some other power boosting device. Nope again! As mentioned, when used with a suitable power supply, the PR3 in stand-alone mode doesn't need an external programming booster.
jrf: I would have to disconnect and reconnect wires in the sense that if my Zephyr is connected to my home layout I would need to disconnect it from there and reconnect it to the programming center for programming (if need be) and then back to the layout again when finished programming.
jrf: I got the PowerPax because from what I was told and read online certain decoders do not allow for read back without it or some other power boosting device.
Can I still test run locos without the Zephyr on the programming track using my computer as the "throttle"?
See my post above. You can but for a few seconds at a time. Not very useful and not suitable to speed match locos,
jalajoie See my post above. You can but for a few seconds at a time. Not very useful and not suitable to speed match locos,
I'm not sure how I missed your reply. Anyway, thanks for the information.
If you're going to use that Power Pax, read the warnings very carefully about having it connected to the track when power is applied to run a locomotive -- that will instantly destroy the Power Pax.
jrf jalajoie: See my post above. You can but for a few seconds at a time. Not very useful and not suitable to speed match locos, I'm not sure how I missed your reply. Anyway, thanks for the information.
jalajoie: See my post above. You can but for a few seconds at a time. Not very useful and not suitable to speed match locos,
Jack is absolutely correct. If you refer back to my first post in this thread, I mentioned using Ops mode programming, or "programming on the main", for speed matching.
Programming track outputs are by design low-current. That's to protect the decoder from damage due to being mis-wired, etc.
The loco first goes on the programming track for checkout and initial set-up, such as setting the address, turning off analog, setting your lighting configuration, and stuff like that.
Then, for speed matching and maybe some final tweaking, it goes back on the layout's main line and you use Ops mode programming so you can instantly see the results.
cacole If you're going to use that Power Pax, read the warnings very carefully about having it connected to the track when power is applied to run a locomotive -- that will instantly destroy the Power Pax.
I plan to eliminate that potential issue by following the diagram found here: http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/powerpax.htm
I was just trying to eliminate adding my Zephyr to the mix and still do everything I wanted to do with my programming station.
Just use the Zephyr for everything. Go to Walmart (or anywhere) and get a 4 wire trailer plug set in the auto dept and make up a quick disconnect. Get another harness for each of the other areas you want to plug in. 2 wires to the run out put and 2 for the program track. You can use a 4PDT to isolate the program track. A DPDT will work if you use a stub end program track
Your Zephyr comes with Blast Mode Programing so there is no need for Power Pax. You will need the P3 if you wish to change sounds on the decoder
ratled
Modeling the Klamath River area in HO on a proto-lanced sub of the SP “The State of Jefferson Line”
Try the PR3 first without the Power Pax. I really doubt you will need it. I have my PR3 and a short length of track mounted on a board. It also has a pair of Kadee coupler guages (rail is gapped in front of tem - mine are the older metal ones which would be a dead short otherwise) and I also labeled one end with the NMRA recommended car weights. This serves as my all purpose test and programmign track, for locos and cars. The PR3 is mounted on one end with double sided tape. Using a PS14 wall wart, I've been able to read and program anything, even supossedly impossible without a booster Tsunamis. No alternative heavy duty power supply (some people use an 18V wall wart), no program track booster, just the wires from the PR3 soldered right to the rails.
I have an old Hans DeLoof version Locobuffer also connected between my computer and my Zephyr. My railroad computer has both of thse active in JMRI. WHen I go to programming mode, it sends commands to the PR3 and my test track, when I use a JMRI throttle, or a panel with turnout controls, the commands go to the Zephyr and hence to the trains or stationary decoders.
I also take the program/.test track along to shows to program locos for people.
First off I'd like to thank everyone for their input on this topic. I would still like to install the PowerPax because I already purchased it prior to starting this topic so I might as well use it and second I have seen first hand issues with trying to program decoders without an additional power boost.
Second, does anyone have a wiring diagram or could you point me to one on the internet that includes these coponents?
What I have envisioned is the ability to program/adjust sound decoders such as the Digitrax SDH164D sound decoder, Tsunami's, and other decoders, etc on one portable programming track. I've seen JRMI's DecoderPro in action and I really like how you can visually see what CV's are set to and how you can adjust multiple CV's at the same time. I also like the idea of cataloging a locomotive roster on the computer for easy access to make changes as you choose. I also like the idea of being able to throw the toggle switch and test out what I've changed and adjusted in run mode using the Zephyr. At some point I may decide to pick up an extra Zephyr system to keep with the programming center itself.
Whether or not someone agrees with me or not on using the components I listed above I'd really like to know how to properly wire these together for my programming station. I've seen certain diagrams on the internet that show how to install the PR3 to the programming track or how to install the PowerPax to the programming track but never all of them together.
Thanks a lot!
PR3 to the PowerPax is exactly the same as <any DCC system> to PowerPax - the connections on the PR3 that say to track are the same as the program track connections on the Zephyr. You will need a power suppyl for both the PR3 and the PowerPax. A USB cable fromt he PR3 to your computer compeltes the setup. This gives you a standalone program track that will with with JMRI. The Zephyr is not involved.
A Loconet cable fromt he PR3 to your Zephyr, and changing the mode of the PR3 to 'MS100 Mode' (you can do this in JMRI, or by pressing the buttons ont he PR3), now allows JMRI to control the Zephyr and the rest of you layout - via panels, or using JMRI to program ont he Zephyr program track.
There's really no point in wiring it so the PowerPax can be connected to either the PR3 or the Zephyr. That would require multiple switches, one to change the INPUT of the PowerPax between the PR3 and Zephyr, adn one to change the OUTPUT of the PowerPax to go to your standalone program track or the other one. Way too complicated.
rrinker PR3 to the PowerPax is exactly the same as <any DCC system> to PowerPax - the connections on the PR3 that say to track are the same as the program track connections on the Zephyr. You will need a power suppyl for both the PR3 and the PowerPax. A USB cable fromt he PR3 to your computer compeltes the setup. This gives you a standalone program track that will with with JMRI. The Zephyr is not involved.
I'm really not trying to be overly dense here but would this particular setup allow me to to "test run" trains (i.e. run the motor back and forth on the test track) via my computer using the throttle built in JRMI?
If you use the PR3 in standalone mode, Zephyr not in the equation, you will be able to run a loco for a few seconds and then the system will reset and you will have to start over again. I think your best option is to try it yourself and find out.
If you absolutely want to be able to test run a loco on your portable programming station, then you need the Zephyr and the PR3 in MS100 mode,as explained by Randy.
The PR3/JMRI combo used as a standalone programmer is not very useful to run locos but doable.
No, the PR3 doesn't really run trains. It can do test runs on Digitrax sound decoders because they have a motor disconnect option so just the sounds play. The PR3 doesn't have enough current output to actually run most locos.
If you want a standalone system that can program and run trains, look at the SPROG. You absolutely positively do not need a PowerPax with that. The supplied power supply is somewhere around 1 amp, and it can actually run multiple locos with JMRI throttles.
Thanks a lot for the help guys. Taking more information into consideration I finally have a more concrete plan of how I want to go about putting this programming center together to best fit my needs.
A quick comment, I found the thread after the smoke had died down. I use NCE DCC. I have an extra command station and booster that I bought from a guy going out of the hobby, so I built my work area/table/test tracks separate from the layout. Thus I have a programming track attached to the extra command station/booster, plus some trackage which includes turnouts which gives me an independent location from the layout for programming and testing. It also gives me a backup to the layout command station, which includes 4 boosters, so that the extra booster can be used as an emergency fill in on the layout if needed. Little more money, but I am pretty well covered if the train shop is closed and I have an op session close to starting.
The one drawback I found is that if I consist a set of units on the backup system, I have to reconsist on the main system. Since I tend to run fixed consists that stay together all the time, not so much a problem.
Bob
Sorry I can't seem to figure out how to correctly link photos here but for anyone interested here is what I ended up coming up with about a month ago. It works well and does what I want it to do.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnfladung/5790326370/
jrf Sorry I can't seem to figure out how to correctly link photos here but for anyone interested here is what I ended up coming up with about a month ago. It works well and does what I want it to do.
Very nice looking program environment!
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
jrf Sorry I can't seem to figure out how to correctly link photos here but for anyone interested here is what I ended up coming up with about a month ago. It works well and does what I want it to do. http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnfladung/5790326370/