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NCE ATL-S4 heads up for 4 digit programing

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  • Member since
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  • From: Anaheim, CA Bayfield, CO
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NCE ATL-S4 heads up for 4 digit programing
Posted by Southwest Chief on Monday, February 28, 2011 7:23 PM

I just installed an NCE ATL-S4 into my Atlas S1 (Army).  Great improvement now that I can run it via DCC, and the LEDs look very impressive.  The included instructions are pretty good as well.

But I couldn't figure out why it would not accept a 4 digit loco address.  I tried programming both on the main and on the programming track but had no luck using our Digitrax Zephyr.

I ended up pulling out my DCC book and figuring out how to program CV29 by hand to accept a 4 digit address.  This worked. 

So just a heads up if you have trouble programming this decoder with a four digit address trying normal procedures.  It seems it comes from the factory set to only accept 2 digit addresses.  I didn't find any info mentioning this in the instructions it came with.

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

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Posted by Stevert on Tuesday, March 1, 2011 6:50 AM

I have two of them that I installed years ago into a pair of S2's.  I don't recall any problems programming them to their 4-digit addresses with my Super Chief.  Maybe NCE has changed something with these decoders in the meantime?

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 1, 2011 7:10 AM

 If you check after a failed attempt to set a 4 digit address, I bet it just isn't catching the automatic setting of CV29 - 17 and 18 were probably already set for the desired 4 digit address, but CV29 was probably still set for 6 to use the 2 digit address. ALl you really need to do in these cases is set CV29 to a proper value to use the 4 digit address.

                      --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
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Posted by cacole on Tuesday, March 1, 2011 9:17 AM

There are comments here almost weekly by people having problems changing a decoder to a long address using a Digitrax Zephyr, and it not working properly until someone here tells them to set CV 29 as a separate programming step instead of relying on the Zephyr to do it automatically.  It seems to be a problem with the Zephyr's timing when changing an address.

Perhaps that's why NCE and some other manufacturers chose to have the user step through a "configuration" sequence that sets CV 29 after resetting the address.

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Posted by jalajoie on Tuesday, March 1, 2011 9:55 AM

I agree with you cacole,  on my NCE the system wait for my input to use or not long address. With my Zephyr it is automatic sometime some decoder don't register in time the value send to CV29. First generation QSI sound decoders were notable for this. 

Jack W.

  • Member since
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  • From: Anaheim, CA Bayfield, CO
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Posted by Southwest Chief on Tuesday, March 1, 2011 12:00 PM

Some interesting news. 

This was my first NCE decoder.

Previous decoders such as Digitrax, Soundtraxx LC, Soundtraxx Tsunami, and even MRC all excepted a four digit using the easy entry on the Zephyr.  Never heard of issues with the Zephyr and 4 digit entry, but could be because I have only used a few decoder manufacturers thus far.

But it's not as if manually configuring CV29, CV17 and CV18 are all that hard to do.

I wonder if the Zephyr Extra is better?  All other systems are somewhat overkill for our smallish layout.

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

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Posted by Southwest Chief on Tuesday, March 1, 2011 4:53 PM

davidmbedard

This is a common mistake made by people using Digitrax products without first reading the manual.

After entering your 4 digit address on the programming track and hitting enter, the throttle will ask you if you want to enable CV29 by saying (Use 4digit?)......you have to hit "Y".  Failure to do so will not set up CV29 properly. I find alot of people simply skip this step (hence, fail to read the manual).  It is an easy miss as well as an easy fix.

David B

This is not possible to do with a Zephyr, at least mine.  No Y button.  The manual mentions nothing about "enabling CV29" at all.  Both the manual that comes with the Zephyr and the larger one online.  (See page 18 of the Zephyr manual)

You must be referring to a higher end product, like the Empire Builder or Super Chief, of a different throttle like the DT402.  All I have is the Zephyr and its keypad.

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 1, 2011 8:09 PM

 Zephyr has no prompt, you press the Loco button to switch the display between AD2 adn AD4, for 2 or 4 digit, and then key in the desired address and press CV-WR to write. It sends 17, 18, then 29. Some decoders are too slow to catch the value for 29, QSI pin particular, even witht he verbal response off, it seems to need the delay where it would be speaking the address from 17 and 18 even though it is set to not speak anything. Then it will take the value for CV29.

 On the DT40x throttles, there you get the confirmation prompt to press Y for 4 digit. I do it twice and it's never failed, even on a QSI decoder. It doesn;t send the value for CV29 until you acknowledge the prompt, so that seems to add enough delay to work with any decoder.

                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by rockislandnut on Tuesday, March 1, 2011 8:41 PM

So many people just use the program track and enter CV1 and then a four digit # expecting it to work.

On my Zephyr, I do as Randy said by entering AD4 and the Zephyr will automatically enter 17,18 & 29. and presto the 4 digit #. Some of my HO sound decoders are a little more stubborn so I use "PowerPax" ( hooked to the program track ) and then the 4 digit address is written after using AD4.

Alas though my new Zephyr-xtra will not write a four digit address even with its new "Blast Mode" using OpSw7 or even using "PowerPax" ( same as Blast Mode ) and is in the shop for repairs. Sad

Wadda ya mean I'm old ? Just because I remember gasoline at 9 cents a gallon and those big coal burning steamers.

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Posted by Southwest Chief on Wednesday, March 2, 2011 2:41 PM

rockislandnut

 

Alas though my new Zephyr-xtra will not write a four digit address even with its new "Blast Mode" using OpSw7 or even using "PowerPax" ( same as Blast Mode ) and is in the shop for repairs. Sad

Interesting to hear your Zephyr-xtra doesn't write 4 digits addresses.  And here I was thinking of upgrading to a Zephyr-xtra. 

This NCE decoder was the first one that would not accept the AD4 entry with my Zephyr.  Well it would squawk/click like it was accepting it, but it never really did.  Guess some decoders don't always work perfectly with a competitors system.  But thankfully, if you know what you are doing, manually changing CVs is still possible.

I might one day convert this Atlas S1 to Tsunami sound.  It will be a very difficult install with the limited space, but there are a few online article on how to do it.

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, March 2, 2011 8:54 PM

 I think his may just be a bad one, there's no reason why the Zephyr Xtra wouldn't program 4-digit addresses unless there's a problem with it.

             --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by rockislandnut on Wednesday, March 2, 2011 9:42 PM

Yes I'm sure that mine was just a bad one as there usually is a lemon in every batch.

A friend of mine close here in town has a Zephyr-xtra ( got it the same day as I did ) and his programs 4 digit numbers very easly but with the Tsunami sound he must use "Blast Mode" or it does not program.

When I talked to a Digitrax tech couple weeks ago he said the "Xtra" needed the "Blast Mode" for most sound decoders using four digits. 

Wadda ya mean I'm old ? Just because I remember gasoline at 9 cents a gallon and those big coal burning steamers.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, March 2, 2011 9:48 PM

 Interesting, my original Zephyr has the blast mode feature (they just didn't document it originally) but I was able to program my Tsunami just fine without resorting to blast mode, just put it on my program track and stated plugging away with CVs. I also programmed it with my PR3 using the basic PS14, no boosters. ANd read CVs.

 My Zephyr is hooked to a single piece of flex track with about 2' of $18 speaker wire for a program track. The PR3 connects to its program track with about 4 inches of #18 speaker wire.

                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, March 3, 2011 7:21 AM

 Think that's my point, I don't HAVE programming issues with mine, even without using the Blast Mode. I've now used both old DSX decoders from Soundtraxx as well as Tsunami, Loksound, QSI OEM, and QSI Revolution sound decoders with no programming issues, and motor decoders from Digitrax, NCE, and TCS. On the PR3 in standalone mode I've used all those motor decoders plus Tsunami and Loksound so far with no problems reading or writing.

 I do have a DB150, it's configured as a booster to power my tracks. The Zephyr is still my command station as I will never need more than 10 locos on my layout at the same time. If I had a Zephyr Xtra I doubt I would have bothered witht he DB150. The old Zephyr probably has enough power to run everything, the Xtra definitely does.

                 --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Paul3 on Thursday, March 3, 2011 10:51 AM

Folks,
I always change CV29 manually.  Every factory default I know of sets CV29=38, while I always change CV29=34.  Why?  It turns off analog mode on your decoder.  Why is that important?  It prevents runaways.  It's true.  If a decoder with CV29=38 sees a short circuit, they can sometimes take off at full throttle due to it's confusion of the short's crashing voltage and restoration.

When you have short, voltage (the difference betweent to conductors) is reduced to zero.  When the short is removed, the voltage returns but it's not instantaneous.  Some decoders are sensitive enough to pick up this changing voltage.  When a decoder senses varying voltage, it turns on it's analog mode and puts whatever voltage is in the rail straight to the motor...which is full blast on DCC powered track.  To prevent this, set the decoder so analog mode is shut off.  Set CV29=34, and it will.

Paul A. Cutler III

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