Hi Everyone
I just recently purchased a NCE system 5 amp system.
I am having trouble connecting my UTP panels. I am getting no power to the panels.
Can anyone please help me out? I am using the NCE wire as recommended. My cab works on the main ph pro, but not on the utp panels.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
CASO
First, where on the command station do you have the first UTP connected? Is it as shown on page 2 of the manual: http://www.ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/sysman07.pdf ?
Second, the UTPs have two connection sockets on the back where they daisy chain from one to the next. One of these should be marked "to command station" or some similar words. Do you have the wire from the command station going to proper socket? (I don't know if this really makes a difference, but check anyway)
Third, did you purchase the wire from the command station to the UTP already made up, or did you make it yourself? We had trouble at the club because of some bad connections between the wire and the plug connector.
Fourth, are the plug connectors on the connecting wire oriented correctly? See page 32 of the manual for proper orientation.
Also you have to check the connectors between the UTP's. They are 6 conductor wire and the wires have to be oriented correctly.
For example, if I hold the plug towards me with the spring clip down, the blue wire is on the left. If I look at the other end of the connector, holding the plug the same way, the blue wire is on the left. It doesn't matter what color wire it is, it just has to be SAME color wire in the same place on BOTH ends of the connector.
On phone wires the plugs are swapped, so the plug on one end has the blue wire on the left and the plug on the other end has the blue wire on the right. Those won't work. You will have to buy a phone plug crimper and some extra phone plugs and put the plugs on oriented correctly. The crimper isn't that expensive and is handy to make connectors whatever length you need.
By the way it doesn't matter which side of the UTP is toward the command station.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
All of the wire from the power system is going to the back of the utp panel.
I plug in my cab to the front of the panel, and it is completely dead. However if i plug in the wire to the front(from the command station) and plug the throttle into next plug beside it it works. I seem to have an issue making the panels get "hot".
You probably have flipped 'telephone' cables running from the command station to the UTP. Digitrax can stand flipped wires, although it makes detection not work properly and downstream boosters have reversed outputs, but NCE cannot. If you picked up a basic 6p6c wire at a home center or The Source or wherever, it DEFINITELY is wrong.
A simple way to make cables the right way: Witht he tab facing you and the wiring dropping down to the floor, white on right. BOTH conenctors must be exactly the same. Hold each conenctor the same way, tab facing you, wire droppign to the floor. The colors need to be in the exact same order. It doesn't matter which one is in which position if the order is identical - the "white on right" makes it easy to remember though and it pays to be consistent with all wiring. If your cable you are using from the command station to the back of the UTP is NOT liek this - this is why you are getting no power to the throttle - it's reversing the + and - power feeds (and the data signal, but with no power it's not getting that far). Check your cable. I'm betting this is where the problem is, since everythign works with the cab plugged directly into the command station - the only variable is that length of wire connecting the panel to the command station.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It is not clear from the OP's remarks whether he is using "homemade" cables or not. He says that he is "using the NCE wire as recommended".
I have an NCE 5 amp PH Pro, just like the OP. I tried different variations to see if I could cause the UTP panels to lose power.
If the cable is connected properly from the command station to the first UTP panel, then power should be present. The cable should be connected to the rear of the UTP panel at either port, it doesn't matter which one is chosen. Say the cable is connected to the right rear port. The throttle can be connected to either the right or left front port and power will be present even if the left rear port is empty.
A daisy chain of UTP panels can be powered by connecting the cable to one rear port, then connecting another cable from the other rear port to one of the rear ports on another UTP panel.
The OP says that if he plugs in the cable to the front port of the UTP panel from the command station and plugs the throttle into the other front port, he gets power. I tried that, and my system works that way too. So, he is getting power to the UTP panel. But, for some reason, he is not getting power when the cable from the command station is plugged into the rear port (either rear port?).
As far as the cable goes, if it is not the NCE-provided cable, the homemade cable can be made with telephone wire, but it needs to be flipped when mounted into the plastic clip, as others have noted. The clip is a 6-wire clip (I use RJ-11 6P6C clips), but the NCE system only uses 4-conductor wires. I use Radio Shack 26 gauge stranded 4-conductor telephone wire. As I recall, 6-conductor wire can be used but the NCE system just uses the 4 inside wires in that instance.
Once the telephone wire is flipped when mounted into the plastic clip, the completed cable can only be inserted one way into the UTP panel. So, if homemade cable is put together correctly in the first place, then there is only one way to connect the cable to the UTP ports.
At this point, we need more information from the OP. Is he working with NCE cables or homemade cables. Does he have more than one UTP panel and, if so, are they all malfunctioning?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain If the cable is connected properly from the command station to the first UTP panel, then power should be present. The cable should be connected to the rear of the UTP panel at either port, it doesn't matter which one is chosen. Rich
If the cable is connected properly from the command station to the first UTP panel, then power should be present. The cable should be connected to the rear of the UTP panel at either port, it doesn't matter which one is chosen.
I'm not sure I agree with this. As I stated in my original post the UTP definitely has one port indicating that it should be the one to connect to the command station. This is mentioned in the UTP instructions: http://www.ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/utp.pdf. Whether or not this actually makes any difference when there is only one UTP involved I don't know. I'm pretty sure that it does make a difference if additional control bus power supplies (wall warts) are needed, but that does not appear to be the case here.
Anyway, I'm a firm believer in following the instructions when trying to trouble shoot a problem.
maxman richhotrain: If the cable is connected properly from the command station to the first UTP panel, then power should be present. The cable should be connected to the rear of the UTP panel at either port, it doesn't matter which one is chosen. Rich I'm not sure I agree with this. As I stated in my original post the UTP definitely has one port indicating that it should be the one to connect to the command station. This is mentioned in the UTP instructions: http://www.ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/utp.pdf. Whether or not this actually makes any difference when there is only one UTP involved I don't know. I'm pretty sure that it does make a difference if additional control bus power supplies (wall warts) are needed, but that does not appear to be the case here. Anyway, I'm a firm believer in following the instructions when trying to trouble shoot a problem.
richhotrain: If the cable is connected properly from the command station to the first UTP panel, then power should be present. The cable should be connected to the rear of the UTP panel at either port, it doesn't matter which one is chosen. Rich
maxman,
After I read your post, I went down and looked at a copy of one of my UTP panel instruction sheets. Indeed, the instructions do say to place the cable from the command station to the nearest port on the back of the UTP panel and then daisy chain the other cables in the same manner. In practice, that is what I have done on all 16 UTP panels on my layout, mainly because it just makes sense to cable into the nearest port as you move on down the layout. Interestingly, though, I don't see any indication of that order labeled on the rear of the UTP panels.
Just to experiment, I flipped the order of the cables on one of the UTP panels in the middle of the layout and the system still worked fine. So, I don't know if there is a right and wrong way to do it. I agree with you that it makes sense to follow the instructions and, in my case, that is what I did, albeit inadvertently. Now that the issue has been raised, I would be interested in what NCE would say about this issue.
I don't think it makes a bit of difference. I don't even install mine "right side up". All of mine have been installed with the clip on the plug at the bottom so all the contacts are on the top (so no dust settles on the contacts). I have about 10 UTP's and my system has been in use for about 8 years.
I can guarantee that if the ends of the plugs are flipped the UTP will NOT work with NCE. 100%.
Caso.Sub Hi Everyone I just recently purchased a NCE system 5 amp system. I am having trouble connecting my UTP panels. I am getting no power to the panels. Can anyone please help me out? I am using the NCE wire as recommended. My cab works on the main ph pro, but not on the utp panels. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, CASO
Where did you get the cables that go from UTP to UTP? And yes, for sure it makes a world of difference which plug the cable goes into in the back of the UTP. One way it will work, the other it won't.
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
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ClinchValleySD40 Where did you get the cables that go from UTP to UTP? And yes, for sure it makes a world of difference which plug the cable goes into in the back of the UTP. One way it will work, the other it won't.
I am not so sure about that. It works on mine.
My curiosity got the best of me, so I called Larry at NCE about the cabling in the rear ports of the UTP panels.
He said that the system will still work if the cables are flipped in the rear ports of the UTP panels, but problems will arise "when external power is applied", so it is best to follow the protocol of daisy chaining in the correct sequence, no flipping of the cables. It does matter to the proper operation of the system according to Larry. Incidentally, he said that the words "command station" are found next to the proper port on the rear of each UTP panel. Hmmm, I need to look closer because I sure didn't see any wording.
richhotrain My curiosity got the best of me, so I called Larry at NCE about the cabling in the rear ports of the UTP panels. He said that the system will still work if the cables are flipped in the rear ports of the UTP panels, but problems will arise "when external power is applied", so it is best to follow the protocol of daisy chaining in the correct sequence, no flipping of the cables. It does matter to the proper operation of the system according to Larry. Incidentally, he said that the words "command station" are found next to the proper port on the rear of each UTP panel. Hmmm, I need to look closer because I sure didn't see any wording. Rich
Yes, the "when external power is applied" was what I was trying to say in my post. NCE recommends that an external power supply be applied every so many feet of control bus length. I think this might be 30 feet, but I'd have to look to be sure.
As I understand the way this works, when you connect the wall wart it does not actual provide additional power to the UTP to which it is connected, but actually will provide power down stream from that UTP toward the direction of the command station. I would assume that there is some circuitry on the UTP that allows this to happen. So if the daisy chain is connected to the incorrect socket, I assume that things won't work as designed.
I believe that there is a circuit diagram of the UTP available on either the JMRI or the NCE users group website. Probably the NCE site. I'm not smart enough to figure out the circuitry, but maybe someone else will take a look and see what the magic is.
I got the UTp problem fixed. It was my plug tool. I am now trouble setuping on the cab's. The cab's only work on the command station. The throttles light up on the utp. However the screen reads NCE pow time. Cab addres. I can't enter anything and none of the buttons. However both throttles work on the command station.
Any help would be appreciated?
Caso.Sub I got the UTp problem fixed. It was my plug tool. I am now trouble setuping on the cab's. The cab's only work on the command station. The throttles light up on the utp. However the screen reads NCE pow time. Cab addres. I can't enter anything and none of the buttons. However both throttles work on the command station. Any help would be appreciated? Thanks, CASO
CASO,
You have the NCE 5 amp PH-Pro system, correct?
And, are you using the Pro Cab or the Power Cab?
I have the full 5 amp system.
Caso.Sub Rich I have the full 5 amp system. CASO
So, you are having problems with the Pro Cab that came with the system?
Is it correct that you have more than one ProCab?
If you connect each ProCab individually to the command station do they work?
If you connect each cab individually to the UTP, do they work?
If you have more than one cab, did you give them different cab addresses as described in the instructions?
Nothing wrong with the pro-cab.
I think the cab is not properly programming after following the cab decoder instructions.
It just won't let me leave the screen I mentioned above, when it is plugged into a UTP, however the problem does not exist on plugging into the command station.
Caso.Sub Nothing wrong with the pro-cab. I think the cab is not properly programming after following the cab decoder instructions. It just won't let me leave the screen I mentioned above, when it is plugged into a UTP, however the problem does not exist on plugging into the command station. CASO
This is still unclear. Are you saying that when you put a cab address into the cab and press the enter key, the screen goes back to the cab address screen? What cab address are you trying to enter?
Or are you saying that when you plug in the cab it goes to the cab address screen and stalls at that point?
Let's try to get back to basics here.
You say that you got the UTP problem fixed, that is was your plug tool. So, does this mean that you are builidng your own cables?
Then, you say that the cabs only work on the command station. The throttles light up on the UTP but you cannot enter any information, correct?
Are you using the terms "cab" and "throttle" interchangeably?
How many Pro Cabs do you have? Are any working at the UTP panels?
You also say that nothing wrong with the pro-cab, but that the cab is not properly programming after following the cab decoder instructions. So, something is wrong. Incidentally, what do you mean by "cab decoder" instructions?
Are you saying that the Pro Cab works perfectly when plugged into the command station? No problems?
Try to answer all of these questions so we can give you some help.
Hey CASO, what's happening?
We haven't heard from you in awhile.
Rich et al.
All is good now. Thanks for the help.
It was te crimping tool I used. I got my cable from digi-key per advice at NCE. I am still getting used the system. But all utp's work good, and the intial setup of the throttles took me some time. Otherwise everything was good.
That is excellent news. I am sure that maxman will be as pleased as I am that you got your problem solved.
Happy Railroading !
richhotrain CASO, That is excellent news. I am sure that maxman will be as pleased as I am that you got your problem solved. Happy Railroading ! Rich
Yes, I am pleased. It did sound to me like there still was a cable problem, especially since the cab worked okay when plugged into the same place on the command station where the UTPs plug in. But when he said that he had found a problem with "the plug tool", well, no sense continuing to second guess.