I am still in the thinking process. I have heard alot that in the dreaming phase and planning phases, we should really think before making a move. I was thinking about the dcc system. I am thinking of having two completely different tracks on my layout. One more of coal/logging industry in 1/2 of the layout. Then the other track and other half halve will be mor rural passanger/baggage/sleeper type of train or something kinda like that. Its kinds what i am thinking of at the moment but not set on it.. Would you do a dcc system on a layout like this, or would you go for 2 seperate indipendant controlers. Thanks.
Sean, the unknown train travler,
Ask yourself these questions:
1) Do I have grades that will need consist or helper power?
2) Do I intend to do switching work where one engine might get close to another?
3) Do I like controlling things like ditch lights in a protypical manner?
4) Do I want control over things like sound?
5) What's my electrical knowlege? If I run more than one train do I have the skills to set up blocks?
If the answer is Yes to 1->4 or "Low" for #5, then DCC is your answer.
Before everyone chimes in to protest, DCC is NOT for everyone. DC has it's place.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
traintravler ....I am thinking of having two completely different tracks on my layout. One more of coal/logging industry in 1/2 of the layout. Then the other track and other half halve will be mor rural passanger/baggage/sleeper type of train or something kinda like that.... Would you do a dcc system on a layout like this, or would you go for 2 seperate indipendant controlers....
....I am thinking of having two completely different tracks on my layout. One more of coal/logging industry in 1/2 of the layout. Then the other track and other half halve will be mor rural passanger/baggage/sleeper type of train or something kinda like that.... Would you do a dcc system on a layout like this, or would you go for 2 seperate indipendant controlers....
Digital Griffin posed a very good set of questions to help you decide which system would likely better suit you.
Having trains run on completely separate tracks makes a DC implementation much easier than a track plan that has multiple trains sharing the same track.
What hasn't been mentioned is cost and effort.
Effort - by this I mean some idea of the time to implement a given control system, including the wiring and locomotive modifications, assuming you already have the knowledge to do it yourself. The number of existing locomotives you have to/plan to convert will have a significant impact on the amount of effort to implement DCC.
DCC has a relatively large initial cost to get started ($140+). Then there is a cost per additional throttle, and a cost per locomotive, although the cost per locomotive can be pretty low. A DCC layout is generally a little simpler to wire, and tends to take less wire for more complex layouts. DCC pretty much locks you into one manufacturer's throttles and DCC system - few throttles can be used with another DCC manufacturer's system.
DC has a cost per throttle that can vary anywhere from $10 to $80+, depending on features desired and whether or not you build them yourself. The wiring for a simple layout with separate tracks is about the same. DC wiring grows quickly with the complexity of the layout (decidedly non-linear). By complexity I mean number of places where layout can be controlled from, and the number of trains operating simultaneously on shared trackage. And to do DC wiring well takes some knowledge and advance planning - to a degree that DCC wiring does not.
As Digital Griffin pointed out, being able to control or play with locomotive lighting or sound effects is a standard DCC feature, and difficult to implement well in DC.
Given what you have said about your layout, the drivers if I were deciding would be whether or not I wanted sound and how sensitive I am to price of the control system and sound locomotives.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
My vote would be DCC. As stated before, the more complex you want it to be the more wires you will need. Plus with DCC you can multiple trains at the same time on the same track in opposite directions- if you do two mainlines for you passanger service or if your logging /coal area will involve switching-with DCC one train can be stopped while the other can move on the same line, which you cannot do with DC (without a lot of hassle). Remember with DCC you control the train, with DC you control the track.
It sounds like the layout you're planning is similar to the one I'm now building. My 8 ft x 8 ft. layout will have 2 mainlines, one around the perimeter and the inside one will be twice around with an over-under bridge. The 2 mainlines will be connected with crossover tracks on opposite sides of the layout so each of the trains can switch over to the different mainline. I'm using DCC with one cab to control both trains. I don't plan on having other people run the trains with me. I think one of the people who is participating in this discussion convinced me to use circuit breakers rather than light bulbs to prevent shorts from damaging my booster. I'll be dividing my layout into subdistricts with insulated rail joiners. I've decided to use a DCC Specialties PSX-4 Circuit Breaker from Tony's Train Exchange. There is a lot of information on his web site about wiring. www.tonystrains.com Kalmbach Publishing also has an excellent book on Wiring for DCC.
When it comes to wiring, kinda scares me cause I dont know what i am doing, along with that I am not sure about myslef. I know what i want, but its just making it happen. I think i will go with the dcc system and plan on using it from the start. Any suggestions on whats a good one for a begginer that the price is decent. I want sound and lights on board. Any thing i should be aware of. Thanks.
A lot of people use Digitrax Zephyr and are happy with it. I went the next step up with the Super Empire Builder from Digitrax, it has more power and comes with a throttle that can control two trains at the same time. You can compare prices at modeltrainstuff.com. As for wiring, it is simple, you run two thicker gauged wire from the power source ( lets say red and white), you mount it under your table, next you take some smaller wires (feeder wire) and either solder it to the track or like I did, was solder it the track connectors and then connected to track about every 3 to 6 feet, keeping red on one side and white on the other- i used door bell wire, it is solid core, fairly cheap and comes in red and white on the same spool so you dont have worry about crossing them up. Connect the small red wire to the big red wire and the white to white and off you go, I drill a small hole in the table under the track that I am putting a connector on and feed the wires through. After you are happy with your track plan and everything is fine, you can go back solder the connectors to the track. I would recommend doing a feeder at bothsides at every turn out and if you have longer sections, about every 6 feet. You just want to keep good current to the track and by doing it every 3 to 6 feet you are minimizing the risk of a dead spot.
I agree with Eric's suggestions on wiring. It's not too hard once you figure out what your doing. I also agree with him on an entry level DCC system. I chose to go with the NCE Power Cab based on feedback from Model Railroad Club members i talked to at a large train show. Most said the NCE was easier to understand and operate. However, the Power Cab system has low amp output so I will be limited to how many trains I'll be able to run at the same time, especially if they have sound. If you think you need more power, (running more trains plus powering other accessories) you'll be better off starting with the next level system like Eric did.
I should have thrown in- visit Digitrax and NCE and any other company's website might be looking at. I think I read the Digitrax manuals a dozen times online just to get an undertanding before I bought. Plus most of the companies list out their products with a pro/con of their products to help you decide on the best system to start with and most of them are easily expanded if you need more power or features. Alot of people on here have the Zephyr and are very pleased with it and if you plan on running a couple trains that might the best bang for the buck. I was not sure how big I was going so I did go the next step up but the big winning feature was the dual control throttle of the Super Empire Builder, the cost of the throttle in addition to the Zephyr was almost as much as the SEB.
AND
what ever system you get, set up a couple sections of flextrack on your kitchen table, hook the system up to the track and program in the loco number, play with a train going forward/ backwards, if you get a loco with sound, toot the horn and ring the bell. take a chance with getting familar with the controls and buttons and switches of the system before you set it up on your layout.. this way will have a reference of what to expect incase you find a area of dead power or something going wonky on they layout
np63 ........However, the Power Cab system has low amp output so I will be limited to how many trains I'll be able to run at the same time, especially if they have sound. If you think you need more power, (running more trains plus powering other accessories) you'll be better off starting with the next level system like Eric did.
........However, the Power Cab system has low amp output so I will be limited to how many trains I'll be able to run at the same time, especially if they have sound. If you think you need more power, (running more trains plus powering other accessories) you'll be better off starting with the next level system like Eric did.
Bear in mind that in this case you should interpret "more trains" as "more locomotives". In other words, if you are planning to have several powered engines on the front of one train this will be pretty much the equivalent of several trains each with one locomotive. Several old blue box Athearns coupled together will desire quite a lot of current.
John
First, I will say I am in the DCC corner. BUT:
If you basically have a simple loop to run one train on, and a simple loop to run the other train on, and never the twain shall meet, I would vote for DC, with one controller for each loop.
If, however, you want to run more than one train on a single loop {say a consist fo 2 locos pulling your RRcars, Or a lead engine and helper pusher engine at teh end,or one train following the other on the same loop, then perhaps DCC is for you.
I would then take Selectors advice.
I have two loops that are interconnected with switches so trains can switch to either loop, and have simple DCC wiring to the whole trackage and generally run two locos at the same time, {can run up to 3 trains at once} with my DCC system. wiring is simple on my small pike with the DCC, I have one main connection and two sets of feeder wires just for a boost. FOr larger loops you would need lots more simple feeder wires.
If you want to run more than 2-3 trains {depending on amp draw}, then be sure to get the booster for your DCC .system.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.