bachmann DCC

[wdcrvr]

OK I know there are at least  a few of you out there that are using or have used the Bachmann DCC system.  I am just starting out and it has been suggested to me that I could get a taste of DCC by buying the Bachmann system and then if I want more I can upgrade later without losing too much on the Bachmann which I could sell used.  Makes sense to me.

Question:  I have been looking for the Bachmann system on Ebay and I keep coming across someone who is selling the system that was part of a set that had included a locomotive.  The locomotive was removed and they are selling the system without it.  However, he notes in the description that the item does NOT include a "red universal track power wire".  Is this an important issue or something I could work around if I buy the system?

Yes I am an uneducated newbie who is taking great advantage of this fantastic forum and greatly appreciate all the wise people who so graciously take the trouble to answer my questions.

Thanks

Jim

[richg1998]

I do not have the EZ Command but here is a link to the manual which shows all the parts.

http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/ez_man.pdf

The red connector plugs into the Bachmann and is made for connecting to the Bachmann track.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=1453

With what I can see, a 1/8 inch plug with wires could be used to connect the controller to the track but that is only a guess. The plug looks like a common headphone plug.

At the Bachmann link, click on the Ask The Bach Man Forum and join. There are people there who use the EZ Command.

Just remember, the EZ Command can NOT control sounds and has limited capability for changing CV's but still a good starter system. Do not make assumptions on what the EZ Command can do.

Rich

[simon1966]

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_74&products_id=188

 

 

[richg1998]

Good link. I did not check the Bachmann site enough. I do see this question once in a while.

Bachmann recently re-did their site and I still have not found everything. They use to have the EZ Command Manual PDF on the site at one time but so far I have not found it.

The link I provided before is from the UK and the only difference is the UK uses 220 vac mains instead of the USA 120 vac mains.

Rich

[tstage]

Jim,

I originally bought a Bachmann E-Z Command for the very same reason you're considering one - i.e. to get my DCC "feet wet" without spending a lot of money.  I paid $53 for mine (sans locomotive), used it for a year, and enjoyed it very much - even with it's limitations.  I sold the E-Z Command later on for $30 and purchased an NCE Power Cab.  The cost of my DCC "experiment"?  $23...and no regrets.

If you can find one for $50 or less, I say go for it.  Otherwise, save your pennies and get a Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Power Cab; both great starter systems for ~$150, discounted.

Tom

[tstage]

richg1998

Just remember, the EZ Command can NOT control sounds and has limited capability for changing CV's

Not exactly correct, Rich.  The E-Z Command can control (i.e. activate) lights (F0) and sounds (F1-F8).

The address buttons (on the right) are "dual-purpose".  For activating a sound: Press the yellow Function button then the number corresponding to the sound you want to hear - e.g. "1" = bell, "2" = horn.  To deactivate a sound: Press the yellow Function button again then the corresponding number.  And you can activate more than one sound at a time.

However, the E-Z Command does NOT have the capability to alter or adjust any CVs.  If you want to change Start up Voltage (CV2) to get your locomotive to start out more smoothly, you'll need a more sophisticated DCC system to do that.  The Zephyr and Power Cab (mentioned above) both have that capability.

Tom

[jasperofzeal]

tstage

richg1998:

Just remember, the EZ Command can NOT control sounds and has limited capability for changing CV's

Not exactly correct, Rich.  The E-Z Command can control (i.e. activate) lights (F0) and sounds (F1-F8).

...Tom

Not exactly correct about the sound capability either.  The EZ Command can activate sounds F1-F10 if the decoder has sounds in all those functions.  When I had the EZ Command I was able to access all these sound functions in my BLI AC6000.

[parts323]

I personally tend to shy away from anything Bachmann.  Their products seem to be well designed and pleasing to the eye, but lack the engineering to make them last longer than one year.  I have had a problem with every Bachmann product I have ever bought.  I seem like every one of my locomotives from Bachmann has had drive system problems. Anyway, we were talking about their DCC system. I have seen it and messed around with it at a friends house.  He bought for his son a DCC set as a Christmas present, and it seems like a Okay every level system, that is relatively easy to use.  But, I have to give Marklin my highest rating.  I got into their line of trains a few years ago and have been nothing but impressed with the quality.  Their mobile station is the easiest DCC system around. 

[cudaken]

wdcrvr

OK I know there are at least  a few of you out there that are using or have used the Bachmann DCC system.  I am just starting out and it has been suggested to me that I could get a taste of DCC by buying the Bachmann system and then if I want more I can upgrade later without losing too much on the Bachmann which I could sell used.  Makes sense to me.

 Jim, you live by St Louis right? I live in Maryville IL, (By Collinsville) that is around 20 minutes from you. Reason I ask, is I bought Toms old E-Z Command and it you like to try it here at the house you are welcome to. I all so have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder DCC system if you want to try it.

 I all so live with in 2 miles of one of the best LHS around, K-10 Model trains. Here a shoot of the shops layout.

 Let me know.

               Cuda Ken

[tstage]

jasperofzeal

tstage:

richg1998:

Just remember, the EZ Command can NOT control sounds and has limited capability for changing CV's

Not exactly correct, Rich.  The E-Z Command can control (i.e. activate) lights (F0) and sounds (F1-F8).

...Tom

 

Not exactly correct about the sound capability either.  The EZ Command can activate sounds F1-F10 if the decoder has sounds in all those functions.  When I had the EZ Command I was able to access all these sound functions in my BLI AC6000.

Tony,

Do you know if that is something that changed with later E-Z Commands?  I had BLI Mike with a QSI decoder and I don't believe I was able to utilize the power down feature (F9) on my E-Z Command.  Course, it could have been that I just assumed that I couldn't and never tried.

Thanks for the correction...

Tom

[fwright]

tstage

Jim,

If you can find one for $50 or less, I say go for it.  Otherwise, save your pennies and get a Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Power Cab; both great starter systems for ~$150, discounted.

Tom

The other "cheap" alternative is the MRC Prodigy Express, if you can get it for about $100.  At $120 - $140, the PE is getting closer in price to the PowerCab or Zephyr.  The PE is a full-featured starter system except:

- can only write CVs, cannot read them

- only supports 1 type of consisting

- available MRC computer interface does not support JMRI/Decoder Pro.

The 1st two limitations get resolved when you add a Prodigy Advance2 throttle (about $80).  You then have a full-featured (except for computer interface) 1.6 amp 2 throttle system for less than $200.  The 3rd PE limitation can be worked around by getting a Digitrax PR3 as a stand-alone computer interface and programmer.

The point is that the Prodigy Express is expandable to some extent, and has CV writing and limited consisting that the Bachmann does not for about $50 - $70 more.

As Tom points out, going up to about $160 gets you an NCE or Digitrax starter system.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

[jasperofzeal]

tstage

Tony,

Do you know if that is something that changed with later E-Z Commands?  I had BLI Mike with a QSI decoder and I don't believe I was able to utilize the power down feature (F9) on my E-Z Command.  Course, it could have been that I just assumed that I couldn't and never tried.

Thanks for the correction...

Tom

Tom,

I'm not sure how to tell if there are different versions of the EZ command so I can't say for certain if I have a newer version or not.  Mine didn't come in a train set it was purchased alone, I wonder if that could be of any significance.  Looking at the online manual, in the functions section, it does imply that the EZ command could only access sounds at F1-F8 and lights with F0.  I wonder if the Bachmann sound on board locos only have sound up to F8?

[richg1998]

jasperofzeal

 

tstage:

 

Tony,

Do you know if that is something that changed with later E-Z Commands?  I had BLI Mike with a QSI decoder and I don't believe I was able to utilize the power down feature (F9) on my E-Z Command.  Course, it could have been that I just assumed that I couldn't and never tried.

Thanks for the correction...

Tom

 

 

Tom,

I'm not sure how to tell if there are different versions of the EZ command so I can't say for certain if I have a newer version or not.  Mine didn't come in a train set it was purchased alone, I wonder if that could be of any significance.  Looking at the online manual, in the functions section, it does imply that the EZ command could only access sounds at F1-F8 and lights with F0.  I wonder if the Bachmann sound on board locos only have sound up to F8?

The Bachmann with sound on board have the SoundTraxx Tsunami with many CV options, more than the EZ Command is capable of. The EZ Command is old technology.

Go to the SoundTraxx site and download the Bachmann sound documents and get an education.

I belong to the Bachmann forums and I have never heard of changes in the EZ Command controller.

I use the NCE Power Cab starter set which does all I need.

Rich

[CSX Robert]

jasperofzeal

...The EZ Command can activate sounds F1-F10 if the decoder has sounds in all those functions...

The EZ Command may be able to activate F9, but I seriously doubt that it can activate F10, since the "10" button activates the headlight(F0).  The only way I see that it could activate F10 is if it controlled F0 and F10 at the same time.

[CSX Robert]

fwright

...
The other "cheap" alternative is the MRC Prodigy Express, if you can get it for about $100. At $120 - $140, the PE is getting closer in price to the PowerCab or Zephyr. The PE is a full-featured starter system except:

- can only write CVs, cannot read them

- only supports 1 type of consisting

- available MRC computer interface does not support JMRI/Decoder Pro.
...

The other limitation is the inability to control accessory decoders.

fwright

...The 3rd PE limitation can be worked around by getting a Digitrax PR3 as a stand-alone computer interface and programmer...

That depends on what you want to do with the computer interface. If all you want to do is programming, then yes; however, if you want to build a dispatchers panel, do any kind of automation, or run your trains using an iPod/iPhone or Droid, then that won't work.

[simon1966]

Well clearly there are better more capable and more costly DCC systems on the market.  But if you are getting the EZ for $50-$60  and it gets you up and running and your feet wet in DCC, it could well be a good way to start.  If you hit its limitations and have a hankering for a more advanced systems in a few months then list it on eBay and make back most of your initial cost.  I would say that your strategy is a low risk, low cost way of getting into DCC.

[tstage]

My earlier sediments exactly, Simon.

Tom

[maxman]

simon1966

Well clearly there are better more capable and more costly DCC systems on the market.  But if you are getting the EZ for $50-$60  and it gets you up and running and your feet wet in DCC, it could well be a good way to start.  If you hit its limitations and have a hankering for a more advanced systems in a few months then list it on eBay and make back most of your initial cost.  I would say that your strategy is a low risk, low cost way of getting into DCC.

While not totally disagreeing with this concept, I wonder if it is really the best advice that can be given.  For about $100 more it appears that one can get a system that seems to be not just a little more capable, but a lot more capable.  And by the time one goes through all the effort, and fees, it would take to get the limited system re-listed and re-sold on E-bay, a lot of the potential cost recovery will disappear.

Just my opinion, of course. 

[tstage]

And while I understand where you're coming from, maxman, for some folks a basic DCC system is all they may need or ever want.  A person who's primary purpose for a computer is only to check e-mails once every few days doesn't necessarily need an upper echelon computer geared toward gaming.  It would be a waste of money for them.

This could also be a similar scenario for someone looking to purchase a DCC system.  They don't need a system that enables them to access CV2 and CV5 to adjust Startup and Maximum voltage.  They may be perfectly happy just to control two trains simultaneously and toot the whistles once in a while.  The idea of tweaking their locomotive or MUing two or more locomotives together doesn't interest them at all.

I totally agree that this path isn't for everyone.  However, if one can find a E-Z Command for - say, $50 or <, it can get them up and going quickly with DCC for a reasonable price, as well as ample time to determine which more sophisticated DCC system will best fit THEIR needs in the future.  Given even the limitations of the E-Z Command, it was still waaaay more fun and engaging - for me - than running the same locomotive on DC.

As I mentioned before, my "experiment" cost me $23 when it was all said and done and I gleaned a year's worth of enjoyment from it.  It also allowed me time to research what things I wanted from my next DCC system.  When the Power Cab came out in Feb '06, I was prepared - both monitarily and educationally - to make that purchase with confidence.  So, again, no regrets from me.  I do understand and respect other's reservations and/or opposing view points on the topic though.

Lastly, I have to say that the one downside to the E-Z Command - that even a sporadic user might find helpful and beneficial - is the ability to reset a locomotive to factory settings in the event of a decoder problem.  There are workarounds though...

Tom

[maxman]

tstage

for some folks a basic DCC system is all they may need or ever want. 

They don't need a system that enables them to access CV2 and CV5 to adjust Startup and Maximum voltage. 

The idea of tweaking their locomotive or MUing two or more locomotives together doesn't interest them at all.

Given even the limitations of the E-Z Command, it was still waaaay more fun and engaging - for me - than running the same locomotive on DC.

Lastly, I have to say that the one downside to the E-Z Command - that even a sporadic user might find helpful and beneficial - is the ability to reset a locomotive to factory settings in the event of a decoder problem.  There are workarounds though...

Tom

Tom:

Again, I'm not totally disagreeing with the concept.   I understand that a basic DCC system will satisfy some people, and I understand the "getting your feet wet" idea.  Where I have difficulty is that the person getting their feet wet may not have a clear understanding of how basic a basic system is.

What is needed is a comparison table of some sort where the "beginner" or entry level systems from the different manufacturers are listed along with the capabilities of each.  And the capabilities should include the things you mentioned.  Then someone interested in getting their feet wet could make a little more rational decision as to what to buy, and if they were willing to settle for the most basic system, then so be it.

To me, it makes no sense to tell someone that they can get something to get started with DCC with a particular system, and then frustrating them later when we tell them that "oh, you can't consist engines with the system you bought.  You should have known this before you made your purchase." 

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject. 

[tstage]

maxman

What is needed is a comparison table of some sort where the "beginner" or entry level systems from the different manufacturers are listed along with the capabilities of each.  And the capabilities should include the things you mentioned.  Then someone interested in getting their feet wet could make a little more rational decision as to what to buy, and if they were willing to settle for the most basic system, then so be it.

To me, it makes no sense to tell someone that they can get something to get started with DCC with a particular system, and then frustrating them later when we tell them that "oh, you can't consist engines with the system you bought.  You should have known this before you made your purchase."

maxman,

I totally agree with you.  That's the one thing I already knew when I originally purchased my E-Z Command.  I knew what it could do...I knew what it couldn't do...and I was content with those limitations.  And sometimes we don't know what we'll actually want and need until we get into the throes of it.

Ideally, the best situation is going to an informed LHS or another MRRer, who has a DCC system, and trying it out first hand.  Even just holding a particular throttle in your hands to see how it feels and how the buttons are laid out goes a long way in answering some yet unperceived questions we might have.

Tom

[jasperofzeal]

CSX Robert

jasperofzeal:

...The EZ Command can activate sounds F1-F10 if the decoder has sounds in all those functions...

The EZ Command may be able to activate F9, but I seriously doubt that it can activate F10, since the "10" button activates the headlight(F0).  The only way I see that it could activate F10 is if it controlled F0 and F10 at the same time.

You're probably right about this.

I've not used the EZ command in a long time since I've moved on to the PowerCab so I can't confirm your suggestion but it seems logical given the function behavior.

[jasperofzeal]

richg1998

The Bachmann with sound on board have the SoundTraxx Tsunami with many CV options, more than the EZ Command is capable of. The EZ Command is old technology.

Go to the SoundTraxx site and download the Bachmann sound documents and get an education.

I belong to the Bachmann forums and I have never heard of changes in the EZ Command controller.

I use the NCE Power Cab starter set which does all I need.

Rich

I also use the power cab, so sorry if I offended you by asking if the bachmann sound on board locos had limited functions in them.  I don't own any bachmann sound on board locos so that's why I asked what I asked.  Thanks for the suggestion to get "educated"...if it wasn't for you saying that I would just be as ignorant as the rest.  Maybe you should get educated on how to make suggestions, then we'll be seeing eye to eye.

[cudaken]

 Well, with still having my E Z I will tell you why I like it and why I up graded.

 I wanted something simple, so I was less likely to push a wrong button. At my LHS I have seen countless people trying to figure out what they did to there engine by changing the wrong CV. With the E Z, you cannot mess up the engine CV's.

 It is small, I don't have a lot of room on my desk.

 It was cheap, I paid Tom $30.00 for it. Why spend $160.00 to see if you are going to like it. Would I pay $100.00 for a E Z, no. But there are a lot of them out there in the $50.00 range, less than a good DC power supply.

 What I did not like is I was pretty much stuck at my desk with the E Z.. I have a good sizes layout and sit 23 feet from the farthest end. It was hard to enjoy that section.

 Far as changing CV's? Well, I bought a Digitrax PR 3 and use Decoder Pro. So $30.00 for the E Z and $65.00 for the PR 3 is still way less than $160.00.

 Far as the E Z being cheaply made, no. I have had it for 4 years and Tom for a year and it still works fine. On the other hand I had to send my Digitrax DT 400 back for repairs after only 15 months.

 Sure glad I hung on to the E Z, ran my layout again for a week while the DT was gone.

 If nothing else the E Z makes a good back up. I all so use it on my work bench.

 By the way, while it was on the layout again, it did run 5 engines but I was pushing it. It was pretty happy with 4 engines. I could control all the sounds that I normally use.

 System I bought was a Digitrax Super Empire Builder because of the walk around throttle.

               Ken

[wdcrvr]

cudaken

thanks for the offer to check out the bachmann and digitrax systems.  That might be a really good idea.  I have not been able to find anyone in my immediate area who is interested in talking about MRR.  So I am making great use of this wonderful forum.

I am at [e-mail] and you can also call me at 618-282-4911. 

Thanks

Jim Williams

[Hamltnblue]

I'm only about 12 hours away, so feel free to drop in any time.

You might be able to find a club or other poster a little closer though.

[simon1966]

Jim

I did not notice how close you are.  Ken is Maryville as is K-10 model trains, I am in Troy and have a Digitrax Zephyr and some of the Digitrax throttles.  Since K-10 has its open house operating session the first Sunday of the month it might be worth planning a trip up I255 and maybe come visit.  it is not far.  My boys both played Soccer against the Catholic school in Columbia last month and it is only about a 30 min ride.

[rrinker]

 Pretty sure it's F0-F8 on the Bachmann. Same as the Zephyr, even though there are more buttons. Reason for this is that F0-F8 was explicitly provided for in the NMRA standards. Then the specs were modified a bit to allow F0-F12, and most recently to go up to F29. Above F8 things are handled slightly differently, so it would add complication to the design of the system just to allow one more button. And outside of QSI's shutdown/startup sequences that use F9, most of what appears above F8 on any sound decoders is pretty frivilous stiff anyway - cows mooing, city sounds, train wrecks, radio chatter (perfect for those pre-radio era railroads..), automated crossing whistles in case you are too lazy to press the proper sequence on F2, etc.

                            --Randy

 

                         --Randy

[cudaken]

 Jim, looking forward to meeting you. I will try to remember to give you a call later today. I do have more senior monument's than I care to admit.

 If we are lucky, maybe Simon could make it by as well. If you have children they are welcome all so.

              Ken