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Problem with Proto 0-6-0 - fixed!

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Problem with Proto 0-6-0 - fixed!
Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:42 AM

I've had this engine for about 4 years now.  It's one of the second run of Proto 0-6-0's, with QSI sound and full power pickup from all wheels.  It's been a perfect engine until last night.

Now, it sits there and does not respond to commands.  I can't activate sounds, lights or motion.  It behaves as if it's in "shutdown" mode, but it won't come out when I press the standard F6 key.

If I remove the engine from the tracks, or power down the system and bring it back up, I get one "steam release" sound, just like it always did.  So, I know the decoder is getting power, and the speaker is connected.  I put it on the programming track and I can read the address and CVs.  I did a reset, verified that the address and CVs returned to defaults, and tried to run the engine as #3.  Still nothing.  I was able to re-program the address and CVs and read them back.

Has anyone seen this with QSI decoders?  Any other "stupid decoder tricks" I can try?  Thanks.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by selector on Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:00 AM

I think David is on to something, and it is likely to be an intermittent contact problem somewhere along the line.  I don't happen to favour the tether system they use on that engine....the tether with two tiny locking tabs, a tether that is also the drawbar.  I think you may be looking for some corrosion or some obstructive material inside the coupling that needs to be removed, but it could just as well be a broken wire or solder anywhere.

I take it that F8 (muting) doesn't restore your sound?

Did you try the double-tap of F6, as if the decoder had somehow been placed into its digital coma via double-taps of F9?  It happens.  I have miraculously resurrected what I thought were engines due for an airplane ride by remembering to try F6.  Wife asks me what the slapping sound was she heard from my forehead.

I wonder if the reset really took.  I take it that you did the three mandatory CV changes...in succession? Did you power down immediately and then power up?

When I have QSI-equipped locomotives on the track, and they are either unused and self-imposed into their dormant status due to lack of commands over time, they all do that steam-let-off sound when I first power up the tracks.  In my case, I just note the cab, dial it into the throttle, and activate the engine on my DT400.  That almost always causes the engine's pumps to begin pounding and the rest is a decision to play with it or not.  If no sound, I may have muted it last time, so I need to press F8.

If any of these don't work, you may have a defective decoder.

-Crandell

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:20 AM

I've disconnected the loco from its tender.  The tender will produce sounds by itself, since that's where the decoder and speakers are.  But, it still doesn't work.

I've been surfin' around, and found a different reset procedure for QSI decoders on Tony's web site.  (Tony does seriously good online stuff for the whole hobby, not just his customers.)  I'll give that a try tonight.  This one might also have a magnetic "magic wand" that will perform a hardware reset.  This loco was sitting over where I was having the problem with turnouts, a crossing track and a Kadee under-track magnet that I described in the Layouts forum.  The thought struck my mind that I might have brought the magnet too close to this engine, and that somehow put the decoder into this state.

But, I'll try the double-tap on F6 too.  Thanks for the tips.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by cudaken on Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:45 PM

  I had a odd problem with a Class J that might be about the same age as yours. Could not get the decoder to reset. Guys at K-10 tried all the tricks, nothing. Ran it on DC, sound worked and engine ran fine. We put it back on DCC and we could change the CV's again. It has been a few years, but it did say something about it in the manual it came with.

                 Ken 

I hate Rust

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:42 PM

 Wow.  Thanks Ken.  I'll give that a try, even though it will mean doing some funky wiring.

I've tried all the reset tricks, and it doesn't want to do them.  I pulled the cover off the tender, and found the "magic wand" magnet.  It would not reset, as evidenced by the address, which stayed at 56 where I'd set it to match the loco's number.

David, why would resetting the DCC system do anything?  Be as technical as you'd like. I can take it.  I'm an all-pro geek myself.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by locoi1sa on Thursday, August 19, 2010 8:52 PM

 Mr. B.

 My 0-6-0 broke a wire at the plug/draw bar. It was a real chore to fix it. You said the tender alone has sound but no movement. This is what mine did when the wire broke. Now the wire has broken to the headlight. I may fix it soon. I am thinking of doing away with the drawbar plug system and harness it like all the other steamers I have.

   Good luck.

       Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by selector on Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:09 AM

Again, for the QSI (I think universally across models of them), you must power off the rails under the decoder and then power up again for the reset to take after you have turned the three CV's.

-Crandell

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, August 21, 2010 2:30 PM

I tried the 3-CV reset a few nights ago.  It didn't work.  The first two CVs went in fine, but the third one gave me an error when I tried to write it.  I tried this a few times, with the same result.  The error is the same one that my Lenz system reports when there is no decoder, or when the motor is missing.  However, I can read and write other CVs fine.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by selector on Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:38 PM

That doesn't sound very hopeful, does it......

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Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:53 PM

   Mr. B.

 It is sounding more like the broken wire deal at the draw bar. Does it run at all? Even on DC?

  Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, August 28, 2010 10:53 AM

 Score one for the LHS, Maine Trains in Chelmsford, MA, in this case.

I'd tried everything I could, but nothing fixed the problem.  I brought the engine into the shop, and we put it on his test track.  He's got the QSI programmer.  We determined that the engine was stuck in "shutdown" mode, and wouldn't come out.  He was able to do a complete reset with his programmer, something I hadn't been able to do.  After that, it took a couple of additional resets to get the sound back, but it's finally working normally again.

No charge.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, August 28, 2010 1:07 PM

MisterBeasley

 Score one for the LHS, Maine Trains in Chelmsford, MA, in this case.

I'd tried everything I could, but nothing fixed the problem.  I brought the engine into the shop, and we put it on his test track.  He's got the QSI programmer.  We determined that the engine was stuck in "shutdown" mode, and wouldn't come out.  He was able to do a complete reset with his programmer, something I hadn't been able to do.  After that, it took a couple of additional resets to get the sound back, but it's finally working normally again.

No charge.

Just one of the hazards of sending those electrons of for a higher education - some of them join protest groups!

Glad you got it worked out.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, August 28, 2010 3:08 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

MisterBeasley

 Score one for the LHS, Maine Trains in Chelmsford, MA, in this case.

I'd tried everything I could, but nothing fixed the problem.  I brought the engine into the shop, and we put it on his test track.  He's got the QSI programmer.  We determined that the engine was stuck in "shutdown" mode, and wouldn't come out.  He was able to do a complete reset with his programmer, something I hadn't been able to do.  After that, it took a couple of additional resets to get the sound back, but it's finally working normally again.

No charge.

Just one of the hazards of sending those electrons of for a higher education - some of them join protest groups!

Or leave you feeling like a dunce!Dunce

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by Hamltnblue on Saturday, August 28, 2010 3:19 PM

The only other thing I would have tried (if you didn't before) would be to reset in ops mode. The qsi book says to do so because on the program track, some systems will cycle track power before the function is complete.

Springfield PA

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, August 28, 2010 6:04 PM

Hamltnblue
The only other thing I would have tried (if you didn't before) would be to reset in ops mode. The qsi book says to do so because on the program track, some systems will cycle track power before the function is complete.

 

Hmmmm...That's probably a good suggestion.  I should archive this thread in case this ever happens again.  Of course, if I archive it, it never will happen again, until, of course, the disk on the computer crashes and the archive gets lost.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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