I was wondering if a few peeps out there wouldn't mind taking in the time to give a poor guy a helping hand.
Here's what I want... doesn't mean I can have it.
I want to run trains. Strickly DC. N scale with two mains and long yard lines here and there.
I want to keep this as simple as possible. No DCC,(well maybe on one main) no fancy turnouts with motors. Strickly spring loaded turnouts (Peco) all manuel.
I want to be able to do alot of things.. but my desires and space available are at ends with each other.
I wanted to have a busy station with lots of passenger cars and some freight. (fairly large train yard) using the longest Peco turnouts possible.
Being a beginner, I came up with this.
Both cars/liners are on the A/D tracks.. with the mains on the inside.
Now I have a few questions... I hope I can get some feedback. I usually never try to post anything for fear of looking like one big dope.
So lets take this slow. Take the Top Main # 1 MARKED YELLOW.
1. If I put Electrofrogs at both ends. I can direct the arriving train to the A/D tracks. AS I direct the power to the A/D lines.. and then direct the power back to the mains, I should be able to have a Diesel and passenger running on the mains.. while the A/D train is just sitting there. Even thought the main might lose power during the trasition?
Now I have read so much here in this forum, my only one big regret is that I should have copied all useful information.. and made one big file for myself.
Reading about turnouts/switches and wading throught RE.RE.RE... its left me.. and I would guess other beginners, wondering whats the difference and how many simple ways I can do this.
But I don't want to get into the difference but more as to what is the best approach to 'separating the lines'
So lets jump to Main #2, I want to be able to separate main #2 from the yard lead IF POSSIBLE, but adding a Electro frog or some cuts in rails?
2. In other words.. while a train is running on main #2, Can I hook up another transformer so one person can be stacking cars ready for the next arriving train.. while Main #2 has electricity running with another train running on it?
3. So keeping in mind the simplest way to do this.. if possible.. Is it cuts in the rails.. or just an Electro frog to channel power.
4. I am NOT even sure if I can separate the lines.. and where to cut or place an ElectroFrog
5. And if so, will I run into problems using ElectroFrogs.. maybe some reverse polarity problem.
6. On a side note here, I'm planning on storing Engines/Liners inside the mountain and plan on just separating the power with ElectroFrogs. If I want another Liner.. all I have to do is click the switch.
Now go easy on me guys, I'm really a 'Tender foot' here. I just want to run trains... on two mains.. have separate power for the yard/ long yard leads. I know looking at all the switches here and there its hard to see what is going on.
I tell ppl "just to look at the yard lines.. as if they were straight and only straight.. don't look at the swithces, they will fool ya." "Look like this"
Ok.. any positive comments are appreciated. Or should I say.. criticism sandwiched with praise, I can handle. I'm in way over my head.
I thank you in advance, but will follow up.
Keith
Oh yeah.. the wiring....I forgot to ask about too. Hey I thank you for the input and I'll probably go out and buy those two also. I've done so much reading already... good thing I enjoy it.
"Electrofrog," and, "InsulFrog," are Peco terms. The more generic forms are, "Live frog," and Dead frog."
With live frogs, you should use something more positive than the switch points to power the frog from the appropriate stock rail. Dead frogs route the power around the points and the frog, which is a 'no power here' zone. Using analog DC, both require electrical gaps in the rails leading away from the frog, with one exception I will address below.
Live frogs are electrically continuous across the frog, so rolling stock units with short or touchy pickup systems are unlikely to have any problems. Some rolling stock, like short tank steamers, can lose contact on the frog of a dead frog turnout - especially if the frog is raised above the closure and 'beyond the frog' rails. OTOH, a live frog really should be powered through contacts on the switch machine or hand throw device. Tortoise and some twin-coil machines have such contacts, others don't.
The one thing that a live frog can do that a dead frog can't? If you throw the switch to the opposite route, a dead-end spur without rail gaps behind a live frog will be dead, since both rails will be at the same potential. To get the same result with a dead frog, you will need a gap in the rail and a separate on-off switch to 'kill' the track.
I run analog DC, and my hand-laid frogs are all live. It does make the electricals a little more complicated, but I run a bunch of short-wheelbase tank locos and MU cars that make dead frogs a non-starter. If you are running 'all wheel pickup' diesels and steam with tender pickup, dead frogs might simplify things - but not much.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Chuck I thank you very much, I really mean it.
I had posted this for many reasons. But in short, I believe there are others out there that want a simple approach with simple answers. I am retired now... a bit early in life but never the less, I have spent my whole working life in my field with little knowledge of the outside world. Imagine learning Model Railroading for almost the first time.'
Now Chuck and anyone else, the information I have verses what I gave you is/was limited. This one run... from one station to the next station.. is a whopping 105 feet. Not N scale feet but the actual real footage of the layout.
So in one direction the train will travel 105 feet to get to the next station, with the other direction measuring approx. 120 feet. Now I really can't see blocking some track. Maybe I am under the thought process of a HOT track is hot track. But a simple cut might do the job.
So when the train leaves the bottom station traveling over a 100 feet in either direction, I really don't see a need for a block. I see a choice, the train can keep traveling by or pull into the station. Maybe with a simple cut in the rails, then switch to another transformer.
Switching from one transformer to the next is a matter of moving my hands. Hey I'll be honest here, I maybe doing this all wrong, but I am having fun. Also, there are a total of four areas to have train stations. I just see this as four different layouts .. all in one. lol. I have just about everything to make this happen.
I just want a simple approach as to what to do and what to use.
Chuck on a side note here, I have read up on how to change Electro's in live rails both ways., but I got the feeling its just the same as in insulfrog. And thus, just cosmetics.
I thank you for your reply, the best I've read in awhile concerning electro verses Insul's.
How many simple ways can I run trains? Should have been the title of this, I wonder how many people have passed over this blog, I know I would have.~
Thanks again
Keith - see my e-mail to you!
If you want to keep wiring at a minimum and you don´t want to care about blocks to be assigned to cabs, so in short, if you just want to enjoy running trains without having to worry about power routing - go DCC! It just requires two bus wires and a sufficient number of feeder wires - that´s all!
DCC is nothing "fancy" anymore. Aside from installing decoders (or having them installed), it takes away a lot of chores and just leaves the fun!
I second this.You already have a fair level of complexity in your design so buying all the hardware (switches,controls,extra wiring,etc) will end up as expensive as a basic DCC system,and that is without considering the constant hassle of controlling polarity all the time.It has been done in the past as there was no choice then but now DCC makes things a lot easier.
If you still want to go the DC way,Atlas sells a great book on block control along with specially designed switches and controls for this purpose.