Okay, so I have a Digitrax Zephyr and I love it. I only need to ever run 4 trains at a time maximum, so it works great for me. But my layout is relatively large and I've been having problems with maxing out the power amperage supplied by the Zephyr. I need to add a booster to my layout, but I don't know what model. I just need more power - not a different command station. I'm looking for the absolute cheapest option possible.
One note: I have an old AtlasMaster (Lenz) power unit which I've heard can be used with my Digitrax system. Is this correct, and how would I go about doing that?
Tyler,
The physical size of the layout does not affect the power draw of the locomotives. Assuming you're talking about HO scale or smaller, the Zephyr is very capable of powering four locos at once on practically any size layout. What symptoms are you experiencing that make you think you need an additional booster? Are you using track power for anything else (switch machines, structure lighting, etc)?
Steve
Your lack of power may be a result of not having enough power feeds to your track or that you used too small a gauge of wire for your track bus, and not that you need to add a booster.
What gauge of wire did you use for your track wiring, and how long is the wire from your Zephyr to the farthest point on your layout?
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
What is happening to make you believe that the layout needs more power? 4 trains really shouldn't max out a Zephyr unless they all have 2 or 3 powered units, some with sound.
If they are just slowing down, you need to look at the wiring. Does the short circuit protection in your Zephyr trip immediately wherever the "coin test" is done?
To answer your second question, AFAIK, Atlas Commander (Lenz Compact) can't be used as a slave booster. It can be the command station with extra boosters connected to it. The only "slave" capabilities it has is to turn off its command station and booster. This would allow its throttle to be used with Lenz "XpressNet" on another Lenz system. I believe its progamming output (P and Q) would also work.
Martin Myers
Train Man, Simon 1966 brought over his Zephyr so I could give it a try before I bought one. My bench is 174 square foot with little over 300 feet of track. We where running 6 to 8 engines with no power problems.
One thing I have learned and it was the hard way. Adding more power with to little wiring = burnt up decoders!
I have feeders about every 6 to 9 feet, some soldered joints and good tight joiners. On long feeders I used 18 gauge wire, on short ones 22 gauge.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
I agree. The Zephyr is not your problem and a booster will not cure it.
Explore wiring and load issues. Are you powering anything besides the 4 engines with the Zephyr? Is your buss heavy enough?
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Echoing Phoebe Vet, are you using the DCC power for other things besides track power? DCC controlled turnout controllers, crossing grades, lighting? If so, you might want to look into the Tam Valley Depot DCC Accessory Booster.
If it is track power, you might consider a second Zephyr unit running in booster mode rather than one of Digitrax's other boosters.
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
Thanks for the replies all. I'm using 18 gauge wire with feeders every 6 feet or so. The furthest the track gets from the Zephyr is a good 20 feet in my roundabout way. The only thing running off the Zephyr is the track, and the short breaker trips fine.
The symptoms I was experiencing were that while running two or three trains on different parts of the layout, they would all stop for a second and an error would flash across the screen of the Zephyr which looked like the "short" error. I had thought it was a loco problem so I had my crew move one loco at a time and the problem did not reproduce until the second engine started moving again. None of these problems happen while operating a single train - it runs smoothly everywhere.
I was not looking to connect the throttle part of the Atlas system to my layout -- just the track power supply. IIRC, the booster hooks up to the track, not the throttle part. When I was purchasing my Zephyr there was an option to use a 3rd party power supply rather than the one Digitrax supplies. I opted to buy Digitrax's power supply, but is there a way I can wire in the Atlas power supply as a booster? If nothing else, it would allow my operators to bring sound-equipped locomotives to run on my layout.
A "short" error is indicated by walking o's on the Zephyr display. That would not be an indication that there was not enough power. A short would shut power down as you confirmed until theshort is cleared.
Walking l's on the display mean that there is a current overload. That would be the indication that the 2.5 amp limit of the Zephyr has ben reached. Remove an engine or two until it clears. If this is the indication you are getting, then a second power district may be needed.
If a second booster is required, the Atlas Commander won't do the job. As I have already pointed out, it does not have the capability to be a slave booster. Some other booster will be needed.
A second Zephyr, a Digitrax DB150, etc, would work. There are other boosters available from different manufacturers. All of them will put you in the $100 to $200 range depending on their size and external power supply. You may be able to get some use out of the Atlas Generator which is I believe a 3amp power supply. You would need to locate a booster that requires three amps or less and has the capability of being slaved to another system. No sure who makes one in that size anymore. If a three amp booster can be located, the Atlas generator could power it.
mfm37A "short" error is indicated by walking o's on the Zephyr display. That would not be an indication that there was not enough power. A short would shut power down as you confirmed until theshort is cleared.
That's exactly what I don't get -- there are flickering walking o's, but no shutdown. And this was in the yard, 3 feet from the Zephyr. Far away from the Zephyr the entire layout shuts off for a split second, everything stopping.
mfm37A second Zephyr, a Digitrax DB150, etc, would work. There are other boosters available from different manufacturers. All of them will put you in the $100 to $200 range depending on their size and external power supply. You may be able to get some use out of the Atlas Generator which is I believe a 3amp power supply. You would need to locate a booster that requires three amps or less and has the capability of being slaved to another system. No sure who makes one in that size anymore. If a three amp booster can be located, the Atlas generator could power it.
So the Atlas unit is just a generator, I need a booster unit as well?
TrainManTy So the Atlas unit is just a generator, I need a booster unit as well?
I still don't think you need a booster. I believe that you need to find your electrical problem.
There is no way that 4 engines should be too much load for a Zephyr.
If you just keep adding more current to an electrical problem you will start burning things out.
Ty,When you say you are running 4 trains at a time, how many engines are on each train, and how many have sound? This is important info to diagnose your problem.
Secondly, do you have any sound engines on the layout at all? Even if they aren't running, they still draw power when powering up the layout (or when it recovers from a short).
I would not use 18AWG wire for a bus. I use nothing less than 14AWG. It's what I use on my 25' x 50' HO Zephyr layout, and it stretches around 150' from the Z to the end of the track. I do not have power problems like you describe.
What size are you using for feeder wires?
If you want to add a booster, a second Zephyr is the cheapest commerically available option by far for your Digitrax layout. A new Z is $160 with a 2.5-amp power supply included (all at Tony's Train eXchange). A DB150 is $148, but then you have to buy a $40 5-amp power supply making it at least $188.
When you wire in a 2nd booster, you must set the 2nd Z to be a "slave" to the "master" unit (it's in the directions). You must also completely isolate your layout into 2 sections. Cut the rail and cut the bus. Each half of the layout will be powered from a Z. The only thing linking the two together is the LocoNet cable, and I think a grounding wire. You aren't really adding power to the layout like you would add a 2nd engine to a raft to make it go faster. What you're actually doing is wiring up two completely seperate layouts that happen to meet in the middle with only a LocoNet wire between them. Sort of like cutting the raft in half and adding an engine to the part you cut free while keeping them tied together loosely. They are independant, yet linked.
Paul A. Cutler III
The trains are one locomotive, no sound. I am really relieved that it's not a power problem.
What I'm thinking of doing is to reproduce the problem for a base test, and then re-wire the layout with 14 or lower gauge bus wire. Can I keep the individual feeders 18 gauge or do I have to replace them too?
Ty,I think that the small bus wire might be the problem, but I don't know for certain.
I know that I have run up to 4 trains at the same time on my layout using 7 locos (none with sound). The locos I was using were: 4 P1K RDC's, 2 Atlas S-2's, and a P2K GP9. My Zephyr handled that with no problems. Yours should, too.
18AWG feeders is more than plenty. I use 20AWG myself. As long as these wires are under 12" or so, there should not be any problems (and my feeders are every 9 feet).
For wire length runs, what does your layout look like?
TrainManTyThat's exactly what I don't get -- there are flickering walking o's, but no shutdown. And this was in the yard, 3 feet from the Zephyr. Far away from the Zephyr the entire layout shuts off for a split second, everything stopping.
Ty, I had a similar problem some years ago when I first started using my Zephyr. The problem only seemed to happen when several locos were operating. I finally decided the the total current I was using was about half of the full capacity of the Zephyr, and when a loco would run across a turnout and cause a very brief high-resistance short, that caused the overload to operate and a string of zeros would cross the readout.
My cure involved working on my turnouts and a crossover, and this helped a lot but I never really got it totally fixed. However, the problem disappeared completely when I converted to a DCS100. I think this is mainly because the DCS100 has a slightly slower response to a short circuit, and the higher current rating probably helps too.
Just my 2 cents of experience.
I think Paul is right. Your buss is too small.
My layout is not as large as yours, but I routinely run 6-8 locos, several with sound, with my Zephyr. I have never had it shut down on overload.
My buss is #12 wire and the feeders are #18, I think. The feeders are spaced every 4-6 feet with some on the sidings quite long. Again, no indication of power loss.
I think you are on the right track. A larger buss will solve your power problem, IMHO.
Good luck.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Paul, you can find a diagram of my layout at the link below. The Zephyr is located in front of Lebanon Yard.
White River Southern RR - About the Layout
60YOKIDTrainManTyThat's exactly what I don't get -- there are flickering walking o's, but no shutdown. And this was in the yard, 3 feet from the Zephyr. Far away from the Zephyr the entire layout shuts off for a split second, everything stopping. Ty, I had a similar problem some years ago when I first started using my Zephyr. The problem only seemed to happen when several locos were operating. I finally decided the the total current I was using was about half of the full capacity of the Zephyr, and when a loco would run across a turnout and cause a very brief high-resistance short, that caused the overload to operate and a string of zeros would cross the readout. My cure involved working on my turnouts and a crossover, and this helped a lot but I never really got it totally fixed. However, the problem disappeared completely when I converted to a DCS100. I think this is mainly because the DCS100 has a slightly slower response to a short circuit, and the higher current rating probably helps too.Just my 2 cents of experience.
And there's no way I have the money to convert to a DCS100, so will changing the bus wire help at all?
With a bus run of 20 feet or less, #14 is plenty. #18 is plenty for feeders, I actually use #20 which is also more than adequate - provided you actually have plenty of them and not just one set of feeders at each end of the layout. Notice in his test for feeder sizes, Allan Gartner used 25' 'bus' of #14 wire, and all was perfectly fine: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm
If you run the bus all over the place so that the length of WIRE is more than 20 feet, you will want to move up to #12 wire, but the bus should be fairly straight. Say your layout goes out and back a distance of 20 feet, but in the middle you have a branch line that goes off 10 feet to one side. The way to runt he bus would be a straight line 20 feet from end to end, and tap off another sectin of bus that goes stright out for 10 feet under the branch line. NOT have it go down 10 feet, follow the branch out 10 feet and back 10 feet, then go to the other end of the layout, another 10 feet.
Hard to follow the words but in the first example with the tapped off bus for the branch, there's still no point more than 20 feet from the end of the layout where the DCC system connects. In example 2, you end up with a 40 foot bus! More wire (waste of money) and since it's 40 feet long you should use heavier wire (also more expensive). Proper design can save money and effort without compromising functionality.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Tyler
Had similar issue with a couple locos. Am using Atlas turnouts. Took my die grinder with a flat disc and cut a narrow, very shallow slot between the two metal rails at the point on the frog. This stopped a wide metal wheel from contacting both diverging rails at the same time and eliminated the shorting problem.
Hope this helps.
From Mt Pleasant, Utah, the home of the Hill Valley and Thistle Railroad where the Buffalo still roam and a Droid runs the trains
We have about the same size layout mine is10x12 around the wall
thats 44 ft of main line I run 6 locos in 3 consists of 2 each
one sound in each consist Using a Zephyr and two seperate UT-4s with no problems
The difference is i use 14 gauge buss and 18 gauge drop wires every 4 ft
when i did the wireing i checked the voltage and found only one siding
that had a drop due to a loose joiner
I'm with the others I really don't think your Zephyr is the problem
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/