I'm soon going to be purchasing a Digitrax command station and would like to know what materials are needed to build a programming track that is independent of a layout and something I can transport. Just to give you a little background:
I would also like the most modern approach without any hacks and such. Quality parts that are still supported by the manufacturer with modern electronics is a must.
I've seen the PR3 from Digitrax, but I would like to get your opinion on how they set it up per their online directions. I'm pretty new to DCC and electronics, so please give specifics if you're describing some kind of part that might be out of the ordinary. I basically need a list of parts and how you would put it together.
ThanksBurt
Burt
Model Railroading Tips
If you want a completely independent program track, one that is not connected to your layout or command station in anyway, then the PR3 is the way to go since it can be used completely independently with your PC. The likelihood is that you won't want to disconnect your command station from the layout and lug it around.
So in that case all you will need is a PR3, a piece of track and wires to connect it to the track. You will most likely need the Ps14 power supply for the PR3 and of course the USB connection to the computer.
I use a PC so no Mac experience but this is described in this link http://www.decoderpro.com/install/MacOSX.html
In my case I happen to have an integrated program track in my Digitrax controlled layout, but wanted a mobile independent program track as well, so created this thing
The program track also has my coupler gauge and quick reference for length/weight for freight cars as well as my standards gauge all mounted along with the PR3. (Note you have to cut the track to isolate the coupler gauge or it will act as a dead short.
According to the PR3 manual, but I don't have experience installing it on a Mac.
http://tsd.digitrax.com/index.php?c=338
n
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I also use the PR3 but I do not use it portable. I have a computer in the train room.
I highly recommend it.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
davidmbedard Which Digitrax command station are you considering? This will affect how you can set up the programming track...as well different features. David B
Which Digitrax command station are you considering? This will affect how you can set up the programming track...as well different features.
David B
Dave:
Actually, if he uses JMRI, a PR3 and a PS14 he doesn't need a command station at all to do loco programing. I am assuming that his Mac can run JMRI. I am a PC person, so I am not sure about that.
I am doing it with NCE but wanted to reinforce the idea of an independent programming track.
Mine is set up on the workbench, there is a laptop nearby, and my track has its own command station and booster (which also serve as backup to the system on the railroad so I don't get caught with a malfunctioning main command station or booster before a tour. That has happened twice before.)
Bob
I need to finish mine - it's a bit longer, 3 rerailers plus a half section at each end. I put a coupler gauge at each end to minimize car handling. I MEANT to get the new plastic ones so they don't short but gaps will work. Just need to order and mount a PR3 and I'm all set. Like most of my nifty ideas int he past, it got set aside because I realize how little I would actually use it. Not to discourage anyone from makign somehting liek this, but my plan has a section of track across the back of my workbench area connected to my Zephyr program track so I can install a decoder then set the loco on the track and program it without ever leaving the workbench. Portable is good, but the only other place I'm likely to use my equipment is the historical society's modular layout and they already have a program/test track hooked to a seperate command station from the one that runs the layout.
I do fully support the "not connected to the layout" program track. Drive on, drive off might be convenient, but sooner or later you will goof up and drive in witht he program track set to program - possibly damaging the command station - or a loco or metal wheels will be bridging the gap when programming and accidently program every loco ont he layout. You cna almost compeltely prevent this with a bit more complex of a setup using a 4 pole double throw switch and two isolated sections of track. The first section of the "programming siding" is wired to the switch so that it can either be "mainline" or off. The end part is the programming section - it gets wired so that it is either program track or "mainline". That way, if you try to drive a loco in and the switch is set to "program", the loco will stop in that first dead section and never touch the program track area. Or, just make the program track a section of track that is not physically part of the "mainline" - easiest.
My other projects: I built a decoder tester, then used it exactly once to verify it all worked. I found it the other day buried in a junk box. My "testing" consists o installing the decoder and putting it on the PROGRAM TRACK FIRST - that way if I wired it wrong, it won't fry. I've yet to actually have a decoder that was bad out of the box, using a combination of Digitrax, NCE, and TCS decoders. Project 2 was a "beeper box" to use when wiring feeders. Disconnect your booster, clip the beep box leads to the power bus, and if you hook up a set of feeders backwards, it causes a short and the beeper sounds. I also put a switch in that would toggle the beeper and battery for a bi-color LED with a 1K resistor so I could use it to check track power. That got used - never. Maybe I'll dig it out and use it to verify that gaps cut in rails are actually gaps - clip on either side of the gap and if it beeps, there's no gap - or the wires reconnect somewhere on the layout.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Since the PR3 can function as both a computer interface to LocoNet and as a stand-alone programmer using an isolated or independent track (see bottom of Digitrax page), you might want to consider a physical design that allows you to keep it adjacent to the layout (perhaps a shelf with a LocoNet cable to hold something like shown in Simon's post above).
Alan
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
simon1966You will most likely need the Ps14 power supply for the PR3 and of course the USB connection to the computer.
You will most likely need the Ps14 power supply for the PR3 and of course the USB connection to the computer.
Yes, to use the PR3 in programming mode you WILL need a power supply. The PS14 usually works well, but for some of the more power-hungry sound decoders you will probably want something in the 16v to 18v range (The PR3 is rated for up to 20v).
And to chime in on usage: I use mine with the layout and with a portable programming track. Both the PR3 and the portable track usually reside on the computer desk in the layout room, but they're not fastened down. If I'm going to use it portably, I just unplug it and take it with.
Here is what I use.
Just a terminal piece of Ez-track hooked up to my Zephyr.
I have a Loco-Buffer USB that I can plug in to one of the Loconet ports, and a DT400 to the other. There is plenty of room inside the cardboard box the Zephyr comes in the stash the Ez-track for transport. Probably can get the Loco-Buffer in there as well.
The Zephyr should be able to handle all programming needs. Sometimes Blast mode needs to be turned on, with some sound decoders.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Thanks to everyone for their feedback and showing off their photos. It's very helpful to see it in action. Because I'm thinking long-term and into the future about expansion, I've decided on the Super Chief 8amp. I know it might seem like overkill now, but as my layout grows I'd like to not have to buy more stuff right away.
With that being said, I've also seen where the Super Chief has capabilities of programming too. Is this correct? Also, with this amount of power, will I damage a smaller layout even if it's wired correctly seeing there are so many amps? I'd like to think not, but want to be sure. I was thinking that the Digitrax PM42 might be a good way to route all this power until I can take full advantage of it. For now I will be running several good sized modules along with a couple other members modules. These modules will eventually work its way into my home layout which should fill up the better part of the garage. Any feedback about using a lot of power when first starting out would be great to know too.
You do not want to connect 8 amps to the track, unless you're runnign alrge scale. In fact you may not need 8 amps at all. How many locos do you expect to be running at one time? DOn't be fooled by the fact that the 8 amp version is only a few dollars more than the 5 amp - you also need a power supply that can put out 8 amps, and those tend to be significantl;y more expensive than a 5 amp power supply. And no matter how much the people at TOny's say it is,t he Magna-FOrce power supply they push is NOT an 8 amp power supply, their own test chart shows it's not - but I've heard of them recommending that as a power source for the 8 amp DC systems.
Determine how many locos you want to run at the same time - that will tell you how much system you need. I've run 8, 4 of them with sound, with the 2.5 amps of the Zephyr. Circuit breakers are a good idea - definitely if using an 8 amp system in smaller scales, and helful regardless, because you can divide your layout into sections so that a derailment and short on one part of the layout won't bring the whole thing to a screeching halt
I don't know whether or not you need, or will need 8 amps, but stating "You do not want to connect 8 amps to the track" is like telling someone you do not want to connect a 40 watt light bulb to your 200 amp home electrical service.
8 amps is the MAXIMUM that the command station can supply. It has nothing to do with how many amps are applied to the track unless you have enough load to DRAW 8 amps.
If your thinking toward the future, you can use a 5 amp power supply on your 8 amp system now. The only consequence is that it will only be able to supply 5 amps to the track. You can upgrade the power supply to the command station in the future if you need it.
I have the 8 amp Super Chief.
simon1966If you want a completely independent program track, one that is not connected to your layout or command station in anyway, then the PR3 is the way to go since it can be used completely independently with your PC. The likelihood is that you won't want to disconnect your command station from the layout and lug it around. So in that case all you will need is a PR3, a piece of track and wires to connect it to the track. You will most likely need the Ps14 power supply for the PR3 and of course the USB connection to the computer. I use a PC so no Mac experience but this is described in this link http://www.decoderpro.com/install/MacOSX.html In my case I happen to have an integrated program track in my Digitrax controlled layout, but wanted a mobile independent program track as well, so created this thing The program track also has my coupler gauge and quick reference for length/weight for freight cars as well as my standards gauge all mounted along with the PR3. (Note you have to cut the track to isolate the coupler gauge or it will act as a dead short. According to the PR3 manual, but I don't have experience installing it on a Mac. http://tsd.digitrax.com/index.php?c=338 n Runs on Windows XP, Vista and 2000. n Runs on Mac OS 10.4/10.5 with JMRI.
n Runs on Windows XP, Vista and 2000.
n Runs on Mac OS 10.4/10.5 with JMRI.
Hey Simon,
I was curious on the programming track you built if you were able to switch over to a "run mode" so that you could test the loco after programming? From my understanding the PR3 will allow you to program the CV's of many decoders and not just for programming sound to Digitrax decoders correct?
When you program your locos did you have to hook up your command station to the PR3 so that it would know how to communicate with it once back on the layout? It looks like in your photo that it's just the PR3, but I'm wondering how that information you programmed gets to the command station when you have the independent track?
Thanks,Burt
Burt,
The program track I pictured is totally stand alone and not connected to the command station at all. There is no ability to run the locomotives once programmed on this track, they have to be hand carried to the layout to run.
I built this so that I have program capability in the area that I have my electronics work bench so that I can test my installation and do the initial programming, check couplers etc. It is really more of a convenience thing.
Now I also have a program track integrated into my layout. It is in the form of a spur in my engine maintenance area. A loco can run into the program section under full power. I then have toggle switches on the fascia that switch the section to program and then can program direct from my Zephyr command station. I also have an old PC in the layout room and a Locobuffer 2 connected, so that I have Decoder Pro working there as well.
The PR3 based portable program track lets me do what I need without having to fire up the train room PC.
CenturionFrom my understanding the PR3 will allow you to program the CV's of many decoders and not just for programming sound to Digitrax decoders correct?
Correct, in fact I have never used it to program a Digitrax sound decoder as I don't have one. I have so far used it with NCE, TCS, Soundtraxx Tsunami and horror of horrors an MRC sounder , sound only decoder. It worked just fine with all of them.
Centurionbut I'm wondering how that information you programmed gets to the command station when you have the independent track?
Not sure if this is clear from above, but once you program the decoder in the loco on the remote program track, the decoder in the loco maintains the settings that you have changed. The command station does not need to know anything, it simply sends commands out and the decoder responds according to the settings that it has programmed into its memory.
My programing track is my test track. I didn't think I would get anything for my old Prodigy Advanced Squared command station so I hooked it up to a loop of easy track that runs the perimeter of the work shop. I would submit a pic but being as it buried under a pile of oh well you get the picture. I have a spare desktop sitting around that I eventually want to dedicate strictly to programing.Thats been on the "To-Do list" for a while now.
simon1966Burt, The program track I pictured is totally stand alone and not connected to the command station at all. There is no ability to run the locomotives once programmed on this track, they have to be hand carried to the layout to run.
The program track I pictured is totally stand alone and not connected to the command station at all. There is no ability to run the locomotives once programmed on this track, they have to be hand carried to the layout to run.
Actually, you can test run a locomotive on a PR3 using JMRI assuming its a good runner that draws very few amps (like 1/4 amp or so). I did so last week to test a new decoder install.
You can use a JMRI throttle to control the locomotive connected to the PR3 Programmer. Use the JMRI Power Control or the "Power" menu item on the Throttle's menu bar to turn on track power, and then you can operate the locomotive normally. The PR3 can only provide very limited current, so Digitrax has built a "neutral mode" into their sound decoders. When JMRI and the PR3 is running a Digitrax sound decoder, the motor is disconnected to reduce the current load. You can still ramp the speed up and down with the throttle and listen to how the sound responds, but the motor won't move the locomotive. Other decoders, including decoders from other manufacturers, may draw enough motor current to trip the PR3 internal circuit breakers. This will cause JMRI to mark track power as "off". Just wait a couple seconds and turn the track power back on to recover.
You can use a JMRI throttle to control the locomotive connected to the PR3 Programmer. Use the JMRI Power Control or the "Power" menu item on the Throttle's menu bar to turn on track power, and then you can operate the locomotive normally.
The PR3 can only provide very limited current, so Digitrax has built a "neutral mode" into their sound decoders. When JMRI and the PR3 is running a Digitrax sound decoder, the motor is disconnected to reduce the current load. You can still ramp the speed up and down with the throttle and listen to how the sound responds, but the motor won't move the locomotive.
Other decoders, including decoders from other manufacturers, may draw enough motor current to trip the PR3 internal circuit breakers. This will cause JMRI to mark track power as "off". Just wait a couple seconds and turn the track power back on to recover.
No guarantees though, as it's not really designed to do that. In fact the PR3 specifiacally has a test mode for Digitrax sound decoders that sets a CV so the loco motor does NOT turn on, but you can run through the throttle to test the sounds (sort of like load tests on the real thing). Sometimes the CV is not reset when exiting test mode, adn there are reports of this CV causing problems with other brands of sound decoders (I forget if it was a QSI or Tsunami).
If you want a standalone programmer than can also drive a loco back and forth on the test track, and was actually designed to do this, get an SPROG.
rrinker No guarantees though, as it's not really designed to do that. In fact the PR3 specifiacally has a test mode for Digitrax sound decoders that sets a CV so the loco motor does NOT turn on, but you can run through the throttle to test the sounds (sort of like load tests on the real thing). Sometimes the CV is not reset when exiting test mode, adn there are reports of this CV causing problems with other brands of sound decoders (I forget if it was a QSI or Tsunami). If you want a standalone programmer than can also drive a loco back and forth on the test track, and was actually designed to do this, get an SPROG. --Randy
Hey Randy,
Thanks for the feedback about the SPROG. I looked it up and it shows the most recent version being the SPROG II. It sounds like it will meet all of my needs and I can run it through my Mac computer, but I am curious how you set it up. Is it basically the SPROG II connected to a power source, connected to your computer and the two power wires running to the track?
Has anyone else had experience with the SPROG II? Should I assume that this is the only option for a standalone programmer that will allow me to run the train as well?
That's exactly how you hook it up. And install JMRI (free) software on your computer to access the SPROG. You cna bring up the programmer functionality (DecoderPro) and read/write pretty much any decoder out there, and store each loco in a database. Then you can switch to the on-screen throttle and run the loco you just programmed.
[I do fully support the "not connected to the layout" program track. Drive on, drive off might be convenient, but sooner or later you will goof up and drive in witht he program track set to program - possibly damaging the command station - or a loco or metal wheels will be bridging the gap when programming and accidently program every loco ont he layout. You cna almost compeltely prevent this with a bit more complex of a setup using a 4 pole double throw switch and two isolated sections of track. The first section of the "programming siding" is wired to the switch so that it can either be "mainline" or off. The end part is the programming section - it gets wired so that it is either program track or "mainline". That way, if you try to drive a loco in and the switch is set to "program", the loco will stop in that first dead section and never touch the program track area. Or, just make the program track a section of track that is not physically part of the "mainline" - easiest.]
Randy, thanks for another nifty tip (seriously). However, I've had a programming track connected to the layout for years - insulated but controlled by a dpdt toggle for 'run' or 'program'. Once in a while I forget which mode I'm in, with a loco on the programming track, and try to 'run' it in program mode, or the reverse. Never had any damage. Silly me, did I miss something in the manuals ? (Digitrax Chief).
- Tribune
I too felt I wanted a dedicated programming track, but on the layout. So, my turntable lead does dual service, isolated via an SPDT. The only thing I do on Paged Mode is to change the address, and I am very careful to situate the target in the right place. The only time there is any crossover is when I inadvertently run the engine over the gap at the permitting turnout, and by then I have long since reverted to Ops Mode for altering motion control CV's and volume controls on individual sounds.
So, I have felt completely secure, and don't anticipate ever having a problem with that set-up. It sure is handy being able to trundle the engine into the roundhouse or off to duty on the layout without having to lift it and re-rail it on the layout.
-Crandell
I do not program on the layoout. I have a 6 foot test track at my work bench. I use an old desk top PC with a Digitrax MS100 and decoder pro to program. I purchased a Power Pax to use with the MS100 for the extra boost needed for sound decoders. I have a DPDT center off switch to switch the test track from program to run. I use the throttle in decoder pro to test the locomotive, so I don't need a throttle jack at the work bench. I can switch back and forth between program and run without taking the locomotive off the track. This is great for "tweaking" the various sound volumes and function.
I also have a short portable test track and a Digitrax PR3 which I use with my laptop computer. I am away from the layout for long periods of time and have been installing decoders in my locomotive fleet.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
I've had both a LocoBuffer and a SPROG, and I prefer the latter for dedicated programming. Since I participate in a Modular group, and do a fair amount of break/fix programming at shows, it's easier if I don't need to carry a separate command station besides the programmer. Based on my recommendations, and playing with the SPROG I had purchased for my own use, the club bought one, too.
At shows, we use relatively short pieces of track, at most about 3' long. One club member has the track integrated into the top of his rolling tool/supplies cabinet, others have them attached to a piece of wood (mine's on a 2x4 that will probably make a good defensive weapon if zombies ever attack). I've got the same connectors installed as we use between modules, so that I can just-as-easily connect the SPROG to my modules to test.
At home, I've recently completed a 24" radius CIRCLE. It's a little on the large side to be hugely portable, but it has an advantage for speed-matching, in that I can run a loco at whatever speed and be certain that the loco is steady at that speed. Another thing I've done is integrate a speedometer (commercial, can't remember the model right now, but can look it up if anyone's interested) to reduce the need for computations.
bpickeringI've had both a LocoBuffer and a SPROG, and I prefer the latter for dedicated programming. Since I participate in a Modular group, and do a fair amount of break/fix programming at shows, it's easier if I don't need to carry a separate command station besides the programmer. Based on my recommendations, and playing with the SPROG I had purchased for my own use, the club bought one, too. At shows, we use relatively short pieces of track, at most about 3' long. One club member has the track integrated into the top of his rolling tool/supplies cabinet, others have them attached to a piece of wood (mine's on a 2x4 that will probably make a good defensive weapon if zombies ever attack). I've got the same connectors installed as we use between modules, so that I can just-as-easily connect the SPROG to my modules to test. At home, I've recently completed a 24" radius CIRCLE. It's a little on the large side to be hugely portable, but it has an advantage for speed-matching, in that I can run a loco at whatever speed and be certain that the loco is steady at that speed. Another thing I've done is integrate a speedometer (commercial, can't remember the model right now, but can look it up if anyone's interested) to reduce the need for computations.
Thanks for the feedback. I actually just received my SPROG II in the mail today and I just opened it. A couple questions about your wiring technique.
Thanks,
CenturionThanks for the feedback. I actually just received my SPROG II in the mail today and I just opened it. A couple questions about your wiring technique. I'm interested in your method you used to connect the SPROG using the module connectors. My home layout will comprise of modules and so these connectors I'm sure will be part of it. Because I don't have connectors at the moment, what kind of wiring could I use so I can at least test out my new toy? Is there a certain gauge wire?Any other wiring methods you can give would be great.How well does your 2x4 work on zombies? I plan on creating a similar base for my programming track.I like your idea about the speedometer on a circular track. If you wouldn't mind passing along the name that would be helpful.
Well, I'm glad to answer. But first... a picture!
Circular Test Track
It's a little bit of a kludge; I was originally thinking of cutting just a couple of pieces of plywood, but was having trouble figuring out a pattern that didn't waste too much material. Then I realized that I could mass-produce two sets of parts without too much difficulty, and simply glue/screw them together; there are two layers, 1x4 on the bottom, particle-board on top. Each layer would look a little bit like the outline of a stop-sign, made up of eight identical trapezoids. The top layer is staggered 1/16th of a circle from the other (so the middle of a top piece is over the joint between two bottom pieces, and vice versa.)
Gee, the lengths some of us will go to, in order to use "in-stock" materials (stock being that corner of the garage that my wife periodically complains about...).
1) The connectors have been standardized within our club to be a four-pin flat Molex coupler, such as in the following link. I would recommend that, if you're thinking of joining a club, find out what they use. Otherwise, you'll probably need to create jumpers between their standard and yours (not difficult, just another piece of work to do.)
2) The wire gauge should be relatively heavy for the track power bus; our standard is 14-gauge, as noted in the same link. We use different connectors (not specified on that page- gotta have words with the webmaster...) for the DC bus that runs around and provides separate power for accessories and turnouts. We have 8-connector cable (basically telephone cable) with RJ-style connectors at each end to connect one DCC command bus connection to the next, providing plug-ins every few modules (typically used when the batteries on the Radio Throttles die...). Finally, you're welcome to use whatever connectors you want between your own modules for things like connecting turnouts to switches (I use 1x2, 1x4, or 2x4 Molex connectors, personally, because I've got a convenient source locally that's not too expensive).
3) Leave a foot or so of loose wire at each end, with a stress-relief to hang it from the module. That allows for easier connections between.
4) Haven't run into any zombies, pirates, ninjas, or any other Internet memes to test it out on.
5) The speedometer is a TrainSpeed 1, from TDP and Associates (Tony's isn't the only place to carry it, but was the first to come up in a Google search) The circuit board is mounted inside the black box near the bottom of the picture. Two light-detectors stick up underneath the track, about 9" apart.
Feel free to ask more questions!