I was testing the installation of a new sound decoder this morning on a 2-10-2 and noticed a lot of staling through the frogs I was never too concerned with powering frogs as I run pretty large locomotives but running a fairly large one at prototypical yard speed I experienced the dread dead frog stall. I was wondering if anyone has powered the frogs on their turnouts while they were installed or is it necessary to remove them and make the necessary modifications then re-install them?
Thanks
Search for "Hex Frog Juicer" on these forums. That may provide the input you need.
Rick Krall
The ease of powering an already installed turnout will depend on the manufacturer of the turnout.
Rick,
We're on the same page, Ive been in touch with Duncan of Tam Valley Depot and will be ordering three HFJ's . My question was as to what method(s) did people use for powering the frogs. I did neglect to mention that these particular turnouts in question are all Atlas #6 custom line turnouts located in my hidden staging yard in the next room. 22g solid core wire passes through the hole supplied in the frog with room to spare. I was curious as to how people made the connection(s) to the frog soldering or mechanical etc. I am a bit apprehensive to solder the connection as I am concerned with wheel flange clearance issues
You can NOT solder the frog on Atlas Customline turnouts. The frog is cast from potmetal and is very very difficult to solder to. Excessive heat can damage the frog. You need a mechanical means - drill, tap and screw. Since the turnout is already installed you'll need to do this from the top which means the screwhead will be highly visible.
As for power routing the frog, that depends on the method you're using to control the turnout mechanically. The HFJ is probably overkill. There are simpler ways.
Allegheny2-6-6-6My question was as to what method(s) did people use for powering the frogs.
My question was as to what method(s) did people use for powering the frogs.
Got it. I'd asked a similar question in one of the HFJ threads and recall the "can't solder" response. I believe there were a number of well-explained solutions that might be helpful for you. I haven't had the problem yet so hopefully can avoid the issue.
Do work hard to solve it, though, so I can ask you what you did!
I was considering attempting soldering with my resistance soldering tool but decided to put that off and instead am trying a mechanical method. I did a quick mock up last night and I think it might work. I took some .073 music wire I had laying around. Drilled a slightly smaller clearance hole through the roadbed and subroadbed the top piece of the music wire that will come in contact with the frog I flattened over a bit using a small hobby vice, bent the flattened end over 90 degrees and pushed it through the hole. I had to tap it through with a nail punch but it made a nice solid contact with the top of the frog. I will solder a wire to it that will be connected to the HFJ I think this should work well. I am also going to try and find possibly a long thin finishing nail as close to the hole diameter as I can get. This way I can just push the nail through making a nice snug fit and then solder to it.
I know some may think the HFJ is overkill I personally don't. It comes highly recommended by a well respected modeler and one board can handle 6 turnouts. So thats a unit cost of about $8.00 per turnout. I'll spend the money for the simplicity sake. I know I can use the extra terminals of the Tortoise but I have them allocated for other uses right now
Allegheny:
I would advise you to "bite the bullet" and go the drill and tap route. I brass screw threaded into the frog will be a much better long term connection than any type of friction fit.
Joe
Atlas CUstom-Line, at least the COde 83 ones, have a hole already. I picked up some brass screws, have to go look and see which size but I THINK they are 1-72's, perfect fit - they had no problems cutting their own threads so I didn;t have to pull out a tap. I'm doing this BEFORE installign the turnouts - once it's already installed if you don;t want the wire to show much you might have to use 0-80 screws and thread a nut on it. You could solder the wire to a washer or small ring terminal. Might be a bit tricky but you could probably thread it all on with the turnout in place.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
after reading your post I got an idea. I soldered a lead wire to a #19 brad nail. which is long enough to hit the plywood sub roadbed. I then drilled a small hole between the ties and fed the wire down through the hole and nailed the brad into place just enough to contact the frog and secure itself in to the plywood.It worked perfectly but after doing It I realized I had some extra long very fine nails in my work shop.If not mistake they are 1-5/8" long and have a rig shank so they won't pull out. Even with the #19 brad in place after ballasting and track etc. I don't think I'll have any problem with the brad nail pulling out.
I do like your idea of using the 1/72 screw on the underside of the turnout. Hindsight is 20/20 as I should have done what your doing before the turnouts were installed but no snese crying over stilt milk.
Thanks for the input.
I'm sort of wondering why I'm even bothering - I had #4 adn #6 Atlas turnouts on my previous layout and didn;t power any of the frogs. And I never had any issues with numerous sound locos having the sound reset even when creeping along. My little P2K Alco switchers handled things fine as well, no sound decoders but the lights didn;t flicker or anything.
Guess I'm just thinking ahead just in case - I may not hook up anythign to the wire unless I have aproblem, but it will be there and ready in case I do.
I had thought the same up until the other night. I have run RS3's, GP38's, 4-6-2's to name a few across all of the turnouts prior to this and don't ever recall having a problem until this happened. If I increase the speed they will just go right on through but keeping them at about 5mph it's stall city. Since my last posting I think I have come up with a solution to the issue. I found some very small hardware may even be a 4-40 thread I have to check but by drilling out the loop on the side of the frog going clear through the bench work approx. 1'/8" of the machine screw sticks through enough to catch a nut on it, can't get a better connection then that. The funny thing is after doing all of the turnouts and connecting them up to several HFJ units no one will ever know because the engines will pass through the frogs without issue.
But on the upside I've learned a valuable lesson to plan ahead for this sort of thing before installing the turnouts.
Thanks again.
If only that one loco stalls, it may have a wiring problem. My PCM T1 came that way - aloose wire was preventing any power pickup from one side of the tender, so on that side it was only gettng power fromt he lead truck of the loco - easily stalled on the slightest dirt. Once I fixed the wire, all was fine as there now was the proper long power pickup footprint and there were no issues with the unpowered frogs. You might want to check it out.
I have powered all my Atlas code 83 turnouts with 1/4x 2-72 screws up through the bottom. For connecting them I drill a hole in a piece of .020 brass shim stock, them solder a piece of #20 wire the length I need to that. I find that it is easiest to tap the frog hole rather than to try to make the screw go in on it's own. I have used this method with turnouts installed. Just locate and drill a pilot hole from the top. then drill up from the bottom with about a 5/16 hole through the layout base, being careful not to hit the frog. I then clean out the cork roadbed with a piece of 1/4" rod. Bend the shim over, insert the screw,hold it with a screw driver and push it in the hole, and tighten. The screw will stick up, but I've never had a problem with couplers, and not being a rivet counter, good operation is the most important thing to me. After paint and ballast they are not very noticeable. Good luck.
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!