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run away

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d91
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run away
Posted by d91 on Thursday, February 4, 2010 6:41 PM

 I have checked the Bachmann website and downloaded their programing doc for a two function decoder. I have set the CV values they recommend. I have tried both suggestions below and still have run away with a Bachmann 60601 GE 70 ton switcher. Most of the time it runs in reverse when I power up a Broadway Limited Blueline w/DZ125PS and CV29/006 or 005 in the same power district. If I try to program CV29 to 034 or 039 on the programing track in either page or direct mode on the main there is sound and no movement or no sound no movement. I then have to use CV08 to reset the decoder and it then reads back as 006. When I run the blueline into a district wired through a PSX-AR the Bachmann does not run on its own.The Bachmann has only run away once or twice when I operate a DH163PS that may have been residual power. I have way to many booklets,charts, and notes in front of me.
Thanks Ed

--- In Digitrax@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Albanowski" <jimalbanowski@...> wrote:
>
> Roger:
>
> There are a few ways that this can happen....
>
>
> Suggest that you turn off both the DC option in the OpSw programming
> of your command station and on your engines in CV 29.
>
> That should cure runaways.
>
> Jim Albanowski
>
> <snip>
>

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by cacole on Thursday, February 4, 2010 7:16 PM

I'd replace the Bachmann decoder.  Although they are made for Bachmann by Lenz, they are a very basic decoder that has been the subject of several complaints on these forums.

 

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Posted by selector on Thursday, February 4, 2010 7:21 PM

I have found the Tsunamis to be tempermental.  Sometimes they'll accept changes on the main, and other times they won't.

I would place the engine on a programming track, do a full factory default restore, get it back to address 03 (verified and responding to commands only on that address), and start over, but in Ops Mode, or Direct Mode. 

Depending on the address, you only use a value of either 34 or 38 in CV 29 if the address is an extended or long one...a number above 127 for most decoders, but not all of them.

If your preferred address for this engine is a number higher than 127, then use the value 34 for CV 29.  That should work.

-Crandell

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Posted by selector on Friday, February 5, 2010 2:22 PM

Ah, yes, good point, David.  I recall you mentioning that to someone recently who had tried to get the siderod clank to diminish, but was unsuccessful.  I know to ensure the engine is stopped now. Smile

Although, of the four Tsunamis I own, all of them do respond to chuff-rate changes on the fly...thank goodness.

-Crandell

d91
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Posted by d91 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 12:23 PM

 Thanks ya'll for the help, its my long weekend to work so it will be Mon or Tues before I can go railroaden again.

d91

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
d91
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Posted by d91 on Monday, February 8, 2010 9:01 AM

 Well its Monday, I have the I have my BLI Blueline AC6000 w/DZ125PS, working as it should set to a 2 digit address, 03. When I set it for 4 digit address, CV29=38, I have no sound. If I activate loco 03 the sound starts and takes all commands. How do I make the sound read the new loco address?

 

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by jbinkley60 on Monday, February 8, 2010 9:39 AM

d91

 Well its Monday, I have the I have my BLI Blueline AC6000 w/DZ125PS, working as it should set to a 2 digit address, 03. When I set it for 4 digit address, CV29=38, I have no sound. If I activate loco 03 the sound starts and takes all commands. How do I make the sound read the new loco address?

How are you setting the address on the Blueline decoder (i.e. Ops mode or programming track) ?  I suggest Ops mode.  That has worked for me.  Your description indicates that the DZ125PS is getting set properly but not the Blueline decoder.    Ops mode or direct mode on the programming track should work for the Blueline decoder.  I've not had success with Paged mode on the programming track.

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

d91
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Posted by d91 on Monday, February 8, 2010 10:39 AM

After looking at my documentation and BLI web site this engine is BLI B5049  C30-7. No matter what I try to change it will not take on the main in either OPS or DIR. On the program track DIR is the only mode that will chirp to acknowledge changes. What CV do I need to set to tell the sound to work with the new 4 digit address. What do CV's 15 & 16 need to be set to to unlock as this may be the problem.

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by selector on Monday, February 8, 2010 10:46 AM

On BLI's forum, there are stickies about how to programme BlueLine decoders.  Have you read them?

http://broadway-limited2.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=c4f4cea594a1cbfb9e559b5b13f543d6

Otherwise, you should probably give their tech guys a call and have them walk you through a programming sequence.

-Crandell

d91
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Posted by d91 on Monday, February 8, 2010 11:50 AM

 No not all the stickies yet but I have spoke with Steve at Ulrich and he said to use the program track that this particular sound board had to be programed in page mode 1st then dir mode 2nd for the DZ125PS. No luck and am waiting for a call back from him. I had it working at address 03 and cv=38 and the problem with the bachmann engine was solved. But my sound went loud and then a lot of distortion and now the volume is way down with a lot of snow. Gonna keep trying I have over 20 hrs in this one problem now. I think Dave may have the right idea do not cut corners save up and by top of the line 1st time. Thanks Crandell

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
d91
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Posted by d91 on Monday, February 8, 2010 3:04 PM

 Steve advised to send it back to BLI and see what they will do. I still can not get the run away to stop with the Bachmann I have programed it and placed on a track that is still DC and it does not run. I guess that is 1 way to verify if its set for DCC only with it set CV=034 or CV=002. I have not had any trouble programing it in OPS on the main. I have messed with CV's 02 thru 04, and for good measure 05 & 06, and can see a difference. The DH163PS is set to CV=34 it runs great. That should be set for DCC only, right??? It does not happen all the time but I can not see any pattern to throttle settings or proximity.I have dug out some old type car light bulb and will see if some circuit protection will help. With the Bachmann set to CV=2 its doing a lot better. Most of the time it will only start when the DH163PS is on the next main and I simulate the hogger fanning the engine brake to stop on the dime then the little engine will start buzzing and once it took off. Time for a break.

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by jbinkley60 on Monday, February 8, 2010 3:18 PM

d91

After looking at my documentation and BLI web site this engine is BLI B5049  C30-7. No matter what I try to change it will not take on the main in either OPS or DIR. On the program track DIR is the only mode that will chirp to acknowledge changes. What CV do I need to set to tell the sound to work with the new 4 digit address. What do CV's 15 & 16 need to be set to to unlock as this may be the problem.

You need to set CV29 on the Blueline decoder.  Try setting using Direct mode on the programming track.  I set mine the same as the motor controller.  I generally use CV29=34 or 35, depending on NDOT (normal direction of travel).  CV29 bit 5 (value of 32) controls 4 digit addressing.

 

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

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Posted by jbinkley60 on Monday, February 8, 2010 3:24 PM

d91

 Steve advised to send it back to BLI and see what they will do. I still can not get the run away to stop with the Bachmann I have programed it and placed on a track that is still DC and it does not run. I guess that is 1 way to verify if its set for DCC only with it set CV=034 or CV=002. I have not had any trouble programing it in OPS on the main. I have messed with CV's 02 thru 04, and for good measure 05 & 06, and can see a difference. The DH163PS is set to CV=34 it runs great. That should be set for DCC only, right??? It does not happen all the time but I can not see any pattern to throttle settings or proximity.I have dug out some old type car light bulb and will see if some circuit protection will help. With the Bachmann set to CV=2 its doing a lot better. Most of the time it will only start when the DH163PS is on the next main and I simulate the hogger fanning the engine brake to stop on the dime then the little engine will start buzzing and once it took off. Time for a break.

Runaway conditions are often caused by analong conversion mode being enabled in CV29.  This will be the case when you have it set for CV29=38.  I always set CV29=34 or 35, which turns analog converion mode off.  Note that the runaway condition is a function of the Digitrax decoder, not the Blueline decoder, since the Digitrax decoder is controlling the motor and the Blueline deocder controls sound.  Setting CV29=34 is DCC only with the normal direction of travel set as forward. 

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

d91
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Posted by d91 on Monday, February 8, 2010 4:13 PM

 How do I only program the sound decoder.

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
d91
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Posted by d91 on Monday, February 8, 2010 5:16 PM

 Thanks Jeff. The DH163PS is in an Athearn GP-35. Can you tell me how to program just the Blueline decoder other than how Steve told me to. I have emailed the techs at Blueline as they were already closed for phone calls.

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by jbinkley60 on Monday, February 8, 2010 6:40 PM

d91

 Thanks Jeff. The DH163PS is in an Athearn GP-35. Can you tell me how to program just the Blueline decoder other than how Steve told me to. I have emailed the techs at Blueline as they were already closed for phone calls.

If you haven't messed with CV15 or CV16 the easiest way is in Ops mode.  Check the address it is working on now.  I suspect it is 3.  To verify,select address 3 and turn the throttle.  You should hear the sound rev up.  If so, go to Ops mode, set your 4 digit address and then set CV29=34, all in Ops mode.  I prefer doing this when you only have this locomotive on your layout.  The other option is place it on the programming track and go through the same process (set 4 digit address and then set CV29=34) using Direct mode programming. 

If this doesn't work, let me know what happened.  If you've messed with CV15 and CV16, then this may also not work and then our best bet is to start over by resetting both decoders.  What DCC system are you using to program this locomotive ?

   

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

d91
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Posted by d91 on Monday, February 8, 2010 8:04 PM

 Zephyr, I am still lost on how to program each decoder. I know what to reset the DH163PS to  but do not even know what decoder the sound board is.

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, February 8, 2010 8:41 PM

   The best thing to do is program both decoders together in ops mode. Both sound and motor will share the same CV settings for CV1, 17,18,29 and others that are common CVs. Later programing CV2, 3, 4, 5,and 6 will be ignored by the Blueline decoder while the digitrax decoder will be programed. Please do NOT set CV15 and 16 to lock either decoder. If you do, this will mess up consisting and lighting control. I am not sure you can reset the Blueline decoder if it is locked.

         Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

d91
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Posted by d91 on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 6:17 PM

 Thanks everybody for all the help and patience. All 3 engines are working and taking commands on the main in OPS mode. I still have the problem with the Buleline sounding all fuzzy or distorted and hardly any volume. As I said before the volume went very loud on its own and then went to what it's doing now. Could it be the speaker went bad or maybe a short. I did not have any circuit protection but the Zephyr in that district. How can I check to see if the speaker went bad.

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by jbinkley60 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:28 AM

d91

 Thanks everybody for all the help and patience. All 3 engines are working and taking commands on the main in OPS mode. I still have the problem with the Buleline sounding all fuzzy or distorted and hardly any volume. As I said before the volume went very loud on its own and then went to what it's doing now. Could it be the speaker went bad or maybe a short. I did not have any circuit protection but the Zephyr in that district. How can I check to see if the speaker went bad.

On the Blueline AC6000s the speaker is in the fuel tank. Try turning it over and look to see if anything got sucked through the speaker grille and is stuck to the cone.  Remember that these speakers have magnets and will pick up  certain metals items off of your layout.

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

d91
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Posted by d91 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:18 AM

 Thanks Jeff it will be Friday before I can check it out.

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
d91
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Posted by d91 on Friday, February 12, 2010 8:14 AM

 Thanks Jeff, Pete and everybody else. Heres a copy of the email I just sent to the BLI tech service.

Thank you Mark. I found a loose wire on the main connections for both speakers on 1 speaker. I have re-soldered it. Also there were a lot of metal shavings on each speaker magnet. I cleaned them off. I also re-programed CV15=1 thru 7. I am supposed to leave CV15=7? I re-programed CV8=8 and programed the decoder to the 4 digit setting 8005. Every thing appears to working good now. I ran the engine back and forth several times and did not get any run away with the Bachmann engine.

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by selector on Friday, February 12, 2010 12:12 PM

This is encouraging, Ed.  You must feel quite a bit better having learned something important about this engine and other Bluelines with dual decoders.

Not to nag you, but you did rmember to set CV29 with the value of "34", did you not?  That prevents any DC-confusion and possible runaways.

-Crandell

d91
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Posted by d91 on Friday, February 12, 2010 2:31 PM

 I don't think your nagging I appreciate the help. I had set CV29=38 but have changed to CV29=34. It does feel really good. I think I have learned a lot with all ya'lls help. I have been on some boards where you get made fun of because you do not know what someone considers basic math. Basic math 45 or 50 yrs ago is not the same as 20 yrs ago. Ya'll never make anyone feel like they are stupid or chastise us for asking questions that have been asked before. This is a great group of people. Thanks

Ed d91 N&W Merger Era
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Posted by jbinkley60 on Friday, February 12, 2010 4:14 PM

d91

 Thanks Jeff, Pete and everybody else. Heres a copy of the email I just sent to the BLI tech service.

Thank you Mark. I found a loose wire on the main connections for both speakers on 1 speaker. I have re-soldered it. Also there were a lot of metal shavings on each speaker magnet. I cleaned them off. I also re-programed CV15=1 thru 7. I am supposed to leave CV15=7? I re-programed CV8=8 and programed the decoder to the 4 digit setting 8005. Every thing appears to working good now. I ran the engine back and forth several times and did not get any run away with the Bachmann engine.

Excellent news.  I am glad they are working for you now.  You went through a little pain but you'll be far more prepared the next time you see these issues.

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Friday, February 12, 2010 7:09 PM

d91
I have been on some boards where you get made fun of because you do not know what someone considers basic math. Basic math 45 or 50 yrs ago is not the same as 20 yrs ago. Ya'll never make anyone feel like they are stupid or chastise us for asking questions that have been asked before.

I've seen such boards and avoid them for the most part. If you dig in to them you find that the ones doing the teasing and veering don't know much more than you do but try to cover it with smart remarks, insults and arrogance. In my opinion trying to make someone else look inadequate to cover your own ignorance is the best way to drive others that may know more away.

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Posted by Hamltnblue on Saturday, February 13, 2010 12:30 PM

If your loco is running backwards change CV29 to 35.  This is common in bluelines, especially the AC6000 because of the location of the decoder plug.

Springfield PA

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