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Wiring turnouts with DCC

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  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Denver, CO
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Wiring turnouts with DCC
Posted by Motley on Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:28 PM

First of all, I'm a newbie, good, got that out of the way... lol

OK, so I will have a DCC system, (not purchased yet), but I am laying track noiw, and soon will be wiring for all the switches which will be PECO Insulfrog with switch machines, and controlled remotely using Digitrax DS64s.

I know that you have to run power to each turnout. But what I'm wondering is, when you have two sections of track, merging into one, with a turnout, each with a train, and the switch is closed, how do you prevent the train from running into the closed switch? Is there a way to wire this, or is this an operator issue?

Thanks

Michael


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Mile-HI-Railroad
Prototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:36 PM

Motley
Is there a way to wire this, or is this an operator issue?

 There are ways to use electronic circuity to do this.  But if you want to be prototypical, then yes, it is an operator issue.  And if you want to really be prototypical, you will need someone to perform a urinalysis if the operator puts the engine on the ground.

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:49 PM

 

maxman

Motley
Is there a way to wire this, or is this an operator issue?

 There are ways to use electronic circuity to do this.  But if you want to be prototypical, then yes, it is an operator issue.  And if you want to really be prototypical, you will need someone to perform a urinalysis if the operator puts the engine on the ground.

LOL ok thanks! I hope I don't put the engine on the ground!!!

Michael


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Mile-HI-Railroad
Prototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989

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Posted by Doc in CT on Friday, January 29, 2010 8:44 AM

 If you are using the switch machine to power the frog, you could extend the power to an isolated section of track leading into the turnout, that way if the turnout is not in the incorrect position, there won't be power for the locomotive.
There are more expensive electronic/electrical solutions as mentioned above; down load the Circuitron catalog and application book for some suggestions.

Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/

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Posted by Motley on Friday, January 29, 2010 10:15 AM

Doc in CT

 If you are using the switch machine to power the frog, you could extend the power to an isolated section of track leading into the turnout, that way if the turnout is not in the incorrect position, there won't be power for the locomotive.
There are more expensive electronic/electrical solutions as mentioned above; down load the Circuitron catalog and application book for some suggestions.

 

Can you elaborate a little bit more about this isolated section of track. And what do you mean by powering the frog with the switch machine?

I thought in order to wire the switches, I need a power feed coming from the bus to each switch, before the frog and after the frog. As well as wiring the switch machines to the DS64s.

Please explain, thanks!!!

Michael


CEO-
Mile-HI-Railroad
Prototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, January 29, 2010 10:52 AM

Motley
But what I'm wondering is, when you have two sections of track, merging into one, with a turnout, each with a train, and the switch is closed, how do you prevent the train from running into the closed switch?

That is what a locomotive engineer is for.

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Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:10 AM

 Motley if I am reading him correct what I think Doc is saying is that leave enough room before the turnout on both tracks for arguments sake lets just say 8"' and have those two section isolated or insulated from the rest of the track so there is no power to them until the switch on the turnout is thrown in that direction. If your running Tortoise switch machines it fairly easy to do. I am not 100% positive but I believe if you follow the instructions on how to poser the frogs that should be all you need to do as when you throw the switch to the right for example the frog wand the track connected to that side of the turnout will have poser but when you put it back to the center or straight position that side of the frog is now powered and the track connected to it and the other side is now dead as you've switched the power away from it.

If I am not mistake thats exactly how Peco insulfrog turnouts work

Just my 2 cents worth, I spent the rest on trains. If you choked a Smurf what color would he turn?
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Posted by maxman on Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:26 AM

Allegheny2-6-6-6
Motley if I am reading him correct what I think Doc is saying is that leave enough room before the turnout on both tracks for arguments sake lets just say 8"' and have those two section isolated or insulated from the rest of the track so there is no power to them until the switch on the turnout is thrown in that direction.

Allegheny2-6-6-6
If I am not mistake thats exactly how Peco insulfrog turnouts work

I don't think that this is correct.  I think this is the way an Electrofrog works.  The Electrofrog is power routing, and powers the leg of the turnout for which the points are thrown.  For these, you need to insulate the rails on the frog end at some point, and you can put this insulator either at the existing end of the turnout, or some distance down the rail.  I think the Insulfrog always has power everywhere except at the frog, which you can power through the contacts on the Tortoise.

The problem I see with the extending the gapped section idea is two-fold.  If you run a double-headed consist, you'll end up with one unit stalled in the gapped section, and the second unit spinning its wheels in the powered section.  Secondly, most of us don't have the luxury of extremely long sidings.  If we extend that gapped section, we are taking away from the length of the frog end approach tracks.  Most people I know tend to want to make that gap at the clearance point between the frog approach tracks.

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Posted by selector on Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:39 AM

For this to work, you might as well be talking about block detection and the circuitry that goes along with it.  The block detection circuit could also manage the turnout points to coincide with the block with occupancy.  it could also be able to cut power to an engine that is not meant to be in a block, but that requires more planning and engineering.

-Crandell

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Posted by Doc in CT on Sunday, January 31, 2010 8:13 AM

Motley
Can you elaborate a little bit more about this isolated section of track. And what do you mean by powering the frog with the switch machine?

 

Apparently my reply posting did not take.  I was suggesting (as pointed out above) using one of the SPDT switches in a Tortoise or similar to control a section of track leading into the switch.  It would be powered only when the turnout was in the correct position.  As was pointed out, you need a section of track long enough for all powered locomotives in a consist.  Of course, if the entire siding is isolated that issue becomes moot.

In turnouts where the frog is electrically isolated from the rest of the turnout, it may need to be powered by either the turnout motor or a controller or DPDT switch to prevent an engine from stalling. This is determined by testing.

Alan

Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/

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