I just bought a Bachmann 3-T Shay with Tsunami DCC Decoder (my first DCC, so I'm sort of clueless). I want to operate it on both DC on my layout and DCC on friend's layouts. I have to run it purely on DC for a while until I arrange to have a DCC friend help me reprogram.
My issue. The DC sound is limited but working. However, I don't get a nice Shay sounding chuff. When going extremely slowly, near the voltage cut off I'd say, I can hear a chuff, but then as I increase voltage it gets really fast and then just blends into a noise that sounds more like a diesel (I guess it is just a really rapid chuff).
OK, you Shay DCC guys ... how do you adjust your CV setting?
Default Bachmann setting from their website:
CV 116 = 80 chuff rate
CV 197 = 22 auto sound functions for DC analog operation
CV 63 = 20 analog mode motor start voltage (I am having trouble with start up - raise this to help cut outs?)
CV 64 = 180 analog max voltage 18 volts
So, I want to know if you can change the setting to get a more realistic chuff for a Shay in DC mode. I'll get a DCC friend to help me reprogram. And since I will be operating in DCC also, I also would be interested in other changes you recommend for DCC operation.
Thanks,
Marty
www.oakhurstrailroad.com
"Oakhurst Railroad" on Facebook
You cannot control the sounds while using DC. Only with DCC can you control sounds. i do not use the Shay but I know there has been a lot of discussion of the Tsunami in the Shay on the Yahoo SoundTraxx DCC forum. The forum is not run by SoundTraxx but is very active and SoundTraxx specific.
There has been discussion on how to get six beats for one shaft revolution.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soundtraxx/
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I dont know how much time you may have spent around real shays but I have been behind or around them a few times in Colorado and several times down at Cass WV. And if you have a shay moving at much more then a crawl you dont have seperate chuffs you get a rushing noice as they kind of all blend together.
Remember that a shay does not work like a regular steam engine. Normal engines (assume 2 cylinder engines) have 4 chuffs per revolution of a pretty large wheel. A shay as a LOT more chuffs. First off the wheels are a lot smaller so you more chuffs for a given distance traveled. Then you have three cylinders so you have 6 chuffs per revolution of the drive shaft but depending on the chay the drive wheels have a gear ratio to them so you get more then revolution of the crank shaft per revolution of the wheels.
So in short you have a lot of chuffs for any distancy traveled by the shay. So you do get to the point that you do not get individual chuffs at any real speed.
Doug M
Shay locomotive videos. There are prototype locos in there. Take a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shay+locomotive&search_type=&aq=f
I had to do that with a MDC/Roundhouse Climax which is two cylinder. Listened to some videos of prototypes to adjust the chuff rate and at 10 to 15 mph the rate is real fast.
richg1998I had to do that with a MDC/Roundhouse Climax which is two cylinder. Listened to some videos of prototypes to adjust the chuff rate and at 10 to 15 mph the rate is real fast
Rich,
So, what did you do? Did you adjust the chuff rate CV? At 10-15 mph, that is pretty much full speed.
Marty.
richg1998 There has been discussion on how to get six beats for one shaft revolution. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soundtraxx/
I didn't find anything specific on recommended CV adjustments in this group, but am definitely seeing two camps in that group as well as the Trains.com forum:
1) People that hate the way the Shay sounds - sounds like a diesel or a "spaceship"
2) Those that say the Shay chuffs are too fast to be distinct, so it sounds pretty good as is. I assume they just keep the default settings
I'm in the 1) camp, as I have video and audio (and memories) of Shay's and they sound more like a rumble than a hum or a generator wine at full speed.
Maybe it will sound better on DCC than DC. I should get a chance to run on DCC this weekend and I'll let you know what I think then.
The rumble is the sound of the wheels rolling on the track. No doubt the wheels are not completely round anyway after all these years. I have heard a two truck 36 inch gauge Climax passing by at about 10 mph and the wheel noise was quite loud. The two cylinder sound was barely noticeable as no load behind the loco so chuff's were not very distinct and a quite rapid beat.
A couple people said the loco sounded like it had diesel power from a video recording since the loco is oil fired with hardly any stack smoke.
Also, no way will the small speakers ever reproduce properly the loco sounds, diesel or steam. We are just grown boys playing with trains. Everyone has his or her own version of reality if we have never been near the real thing.
Model railroading is only an analogy of the real thing and all analogies eventually break down. Notice, no smoke or steam coming out of the locos. Many times no crew in the loco.
Couple of things:
With the help of a friend with DCC, I finally tried out my Shay on DCC. Much much better sound and operation on DCC compared to DC.
We did end up increasing CV 116 (chuff rate) to the max value of 255. The default was 80, which sounded like a regular steam engine, rather than a Shay. The formula from the manual CV116 = 115.9 x Speed (mph) / Diameter (in) x gear ratio predicts a chuff value of about 120, but that sounded too slow. We also played around with the volume of the bell and whistle. So, I'm happy with the DCC sound.
Yes, I do know what a Shay sounds like ... but the answer is a lot more complicated than you would think. I reviewed my Shay sound CD's, wav files from the YMSPRR website, and my own camcorder recordings. My conclusion: Depending on the particular Shay, it operating conditions, and the sound recording and playback equipment, almost every Shay recording sounds different. The imprortant feature is to hear the rapidly accelerating chuff as the Shay starts to move ... and avoid anything crazy like "buzz" or diesel sound at the higher speeds.
I'm going to make a couple of more adjustments to see if I can get it to run better and sound better in DC, but I'm not hopeful it will ever do well in DC.
You would need to adjust the chuff rate CV 116 until it sounds right to you. A lower number will decrease the chuffs, a higher number increase it. As noted, keep in mind geared engines normally run very slow, I don't think my Spectrum Climax has ever been into double-digits on scale MPH...6 to 8 MPH seems about right for top speed.