Looking to purchase new DCC system

[mlachap925]

I am looking to purchase a new DCC system and have narrowed it down to the Digitrax Zephyr and the NCE Power Cab.  My layout is 8x16 and has 4 to 8 engines that could be operating at the same time, I have a small yard operation, lights in all my structures and I use the Intermodal gantry crane from Heljan.  I also have several switches on my layout.  I could have 2 to 3 operators at a time on my layout

My question is will the both of the systems that I have narrowed down as my choice handle my layout?  What are the pros and cons to both of these systems.  Should I step up the Digitrax Super Empire Builder or the NCE Power Pro 5 amp system.

 

Thanks for your feedback

[Phoebe Vet]

I have not used either of the systems you listed, so I cannot answer your first questions.  Regarding your step up question:

I have the Digitrax Super Chief.  My layout is 16x18 and currently has 12 engines and 2 lighted cars on it. I have 3 throttles, 8 DS64s, and 1 PR3.  I am very pleased with it.

[ARTHILL]

I have Digitrax and love it. It is the radio throttle that I like the most. Zephyr will do that with extra pieces that can be added later. I am not a fan of SEB so I ended up with the SC radio. It did cost more. I have heard from friends that the NCE works also, but I don't know that. You don't need 5 amps. The turnouts and lights should be run from another power sourse anyway.

Let's see what the other guys have to say.

[jalajoie]

The Zephyr will do the job, but it is a stationary station.

The Power Cab out of the box fall short, it will handle only 2 cabs. It is however a tethered handheld giving you a bit of mobility. If you go the Power Cab avenue, you will need the new SB3a to suit your needs.

Both systems are very good, you can't go wrong with any one.

[tstage]

mlachap,

The Zephyr comes with 2.5A of power so you shouldn't have any problems running 4 - 8 locomotives at a time.  The Power Cab comes with 1.7A.  So, depending on how much your locomotives draw - particularly if some or all have sound - it would be fair to say that you could push the limits of the Power Cab running 8 locomotives.

Being a Power Cab user, I know that you only have 2 recall slots in your recall stack at any given time.  This means that if you want to operate a third locomotive, you must press the SELECT LOCO button and enter the address manually.  With the Power Cab, you are also limited to only one additional throttle.  The Zephyr, I believe, gives you 10 recall slots and you can have a number of operator's plugged into it.

I also have an original NCE Smart Booster (SB3) that increases the overall amperage of the Power Cab to 3A, as well as increasing the additional throttle address slots from one to three.  It also allows the Power Cab to be unplugged from the PCP panel and plugged into any UTP panels daisy-chained around your layout, without shutting down the layout.  One advantage with this scenario is that the Power Cab can now become a portable programming throttle that you can use at your bench.

The original SB3 has been discontinued and has been replaced by the SB3a.  The new SB3a ($130, discounted) now offers features that are found on the more expensive Pro 5 amp (or PH-Pro) system:

• 5A total
• 6 recall slots per cab
  
• Works with auto-reversers and circuit breakers
• Can be used in "booster-only" mode on other systems

I think the maximum number of operators is still at 4 (including the Power Cab) but I'm not positive on that.  The Power Cab and SB3a would run you less than $290, discounted.  ($150 for the Power Cab/$130 for the SB3a.)  The update to the old SB3 makes the new SB3a a much better upgrade path.  (The original SB3 became a dead system if you upgraded to the PH-Pro.)

The only thing that the PH-Pro system does offer that the Power Cab/SB3 combination does not is the RS-232 connector (for attaching a computer to) so that you can use JMRI's Decoder Pro to program your decoders with.  A USB module can be added to the Power Cab.  (A computer interface can also be added to the Zephyr, as well.)  The Power Cab/SB3 combination will run you at least $100 less than the PH-Pro.

mlachap, honestly - both Digitrax and NCE make a very fine product and you can't go wrong with either one.  The best thing you can do, if possible, is to actually try the systems you are interested in "hands-on".  This will help you determine which interface makes the most sense to you.

Hope that helps...

Tom

[BIG JERR]

did I miss understand ,are you going to try to power trains and LIGHTS,SWITCHES,ECT ? I dont think thats going to work ,I would ONLY run the trains on the dcc power ,and decoders for switches.but they need a seperate power supply ,not an expert here ,but that is what I would do ....Jerry

[mlachap925]

I am only powering the trains with DCC

[gandydancer19]

 NCE and Digitrax are both good systems.  However, Digitrax has a track record of NOT updating or correcting their manuals or documentation even when they know they are wrong.

If you are a serious model railroader and are planning to build a larger layout than the 8x16 that you are building now, I would go with a 5 Amp system from the start.  Digitrax systems can be added to.  The NCE Power Cab can only be expanded so far.

If you go Digitrax, be prepaired to study how to operate and get the most out of the system for a week or so.  With NCE you can read the manual once and then put it away.

[rrinker]

gandydancer19

 NCE and Digitrax are both good systems.  However, Digitrax has a track record of NOT updating or correcting their manuals or documentation even when they know they are wrong.

 Absolutely NOT true - many of the manuals have been recently updated due in no small part to user feedback. And 9 times out of 10, when someone posts on the Digitrax Yahoo group that they can't find some information, I am able to find it int he manual - or in their tech support depot - using the exact term the poster is looking to have defined as the search item. What I mean by that is - I don't find it int he manual because I knwo to look for a different but related term, I mean using the very word the person said "the manual doesn't tell me what xyz means".

 And contrary to popular belief, the very first pages of all three Digitrax system manuals are step by step "connect a wire here. Now connect a wire here. Nor press this button and your train should move" quick start. As is NCE's - the one that DOESN'T have that is CVP! They have a quick start - but it's not at the beginning of the manual.

Also - all the major DCC systems do all the basic stuff the exact same way. There's really no difference in the process of selecting and operating a loco across ANY of the popular systems, other than that some have a 'loco' button and others call it 'select'. There's really no difference in 'ease of use' when it comes to the primary use of the system - running trains. Any differences in programming can be easily negated using a computer interface and free JMRI software,

If you have any intention of eventually adding signals and block detection, run, do not walk, to Digitrax. None of the other systems can do what Digitrax does with Loconet. Nor do any of the other systems have as many third party compatible products available - Digitrax even lists many of them on their web site, how many companies do you know that advertise the competition? Some of the competitive products even offer more features than the equivalent Digitrax product, for example bith CML and Team Digital have signal controllers that do not need a computer to work, whereas the Digitrax SE8C really needs a computer connected to the system to operate.

                                            --Randy

 

[Driline]

mlachap925

My layout is 8x16 and has 4 to 8 engines that could be operating at the same time

 

8 engines at the same time? How many arms do you have?

I can barely operate two at the same time on my 11x8.

I have the NCE Powercab and love it. It fits well in my hand, easy to operate and has a cool LCD display. The zephyr does not have a tethered controller and the LCD display is cryptic. You cannot move around with it either. The NCE powercab has a 7' tethered cord, and you can use a 25' cord with no problems if you have to.

I've run 5 non sound engines at one time. I can only run 3 sound equipped engines at the same time.

 

 

[Driline]

rrinker

when someone posts on the Digitrax Yahoo group that they can't find some information, I am able to find it int he manual - or in their tech support depot - using the exact term the poster is looking to have defined as the search item.

 

You should'nt have to join some yahoo group to figure out how to operate your digitrax unit. Good grief.

[Comment removed]

[simon1966]

Driline

You should'nt have to join some yahoo group to figure out how to operate your digitrax unit. Good grief.

 

This is where it gets silly...pointless shots for no good reason.   All the major manufacturers have yahoo groups.  Who said you had to join any of them to learn how to operate the system?  Digitrax, like NCE has a very broad product range and people have questions about many aspects of a system. The manuals, are just one aspect of a good support presence.  Digitrax happens to have one of the very best on-line support databases of any of the DCC manufacturers bar none, covering not only current product but all their legacy products as well.

[simon1966]

Driline

8 engines at the same time? How many arms do you have?

Not hard to do if you run consists a lot.  A couple of trains with ABBA F units on the lead would not be all that unusual, depending on the prototype and the type of railroad being modelled.  On my layout, controlled by a Zephyr, it is not at all unusual to have 3 of us operating 5 or 6 locos simultaneously and sometimes more when there are units MU'ed together. 

[mfm37]

 Both systems are good systems. I can set up a Digitrax unit without a manual, would need to look an NCE manual over to set one up. I guess it's really what you are most familiuar with.

BTW, the NCE Yahoo Group has 4500+ members.

Martin Myers

[CSX Robert]

Driline

rrinker

when someone posts on the Digitrax Yahoo group that they can't find some information, I am able to find it int he manual - or in their tech support depot - using the exact term the poster is looking to have defined as the search item.

 

You should'nt have to join some yahoo group to figure out how to operate your digitrax unit. Good grief.

[Comment removed]

Good grief is right! The whole point of rrinker's post is you don't have to join the Yahoo group to operate Digitrax ,just read the manual. The same is true for NCE. While I do not know of any official numbers that show the number of NCE users compared to the number of Digitrax users, a lot of polls have been done and most that I have seen put the number of NCE users at around half the number of Digitrax users. The NCE Yahoo group has about half the number of members as the Digitrax Yahoo group, and the NCE Group has about the half the number of "New Messsages" as the Digitrax group, so from looking at the Yahoo groups it looks like people have just as much trouble with NCE as they do with Digitrax.

[CSX Robert]

tstage

...The only thing that the PH-Pro system does offer that the Power Cab/SB3 combination does not is the RS-232 connector (for attaching a computer to) so that you can use JMRI's Decoder Pro to program your decoders with...

Not true. As you yourself stated, the Smart Booster appears to still be limited to 4 cabs, which can be very important.

mlachap925

...

My question is will the both of the systems that I have narrowed down as my choice handle my layout?  What are the pros and cons to both of these systems.  Should I step up the Digitrax Super Empire Builder or the NCE Power Pro 5 amp system...

2.5 amps divided by 8 locos gives you 0.3125 amps per loco, which should be enough because most modern locos draw less than .3 amps, but you might be more comfortable with a 5 amp system. One option would be to start with a Zephyr and if winds up being not enough current add a booster. If you went this route and added a booster, it would have been cheaper to just start with a 5 amp system, but it would let you build to it incrementaly which is sometimes easier, plus, if the 2.5 amps does wind up being enough it would save you money.

The Power Cab with the new Smart Booster would handle your layout as described, but the 4 cab limit could be a problem down the road depending on your future plans. If you ever want to do any computer based dispatching, or if you want any block occupancy detection or turnout control panels tied into the DCC system, the PC interface and input modules take up cab addresses.

[tstage]

CSX Robert

tstage

...The only thing that the PH-Pro system does offer that the Power Cab/SB3 combination does not is the RS-232 connector (for attaching a computer to) so that you can use JMRI's Decoder Pro to program your decoders with...

Not true. As you yourself stated, the Smart Booster appears to still be limited to 4 cabs, which can be very important.

Good catch, Robert.  Thanks for the correction.

Tom

[tsanders1950]

mlachap925

I am looking to purchase a new DCC system and have narrowed it down to the Digitrax Zephyr and the NCE Power Cab.  My layout is 8x16 and has 4 to 8 engines that could be operating at the same time, I have a small yard operation, lights in all my structures and I use the Intermodal gantry crane from Heljan.  I also have several switches on my layout.  I could have 2 to 3 operators at a time on my layout

My question is will the both of the systems that I have narrowed down as my choice handle my layout?  What are the pros and cons to both of these systems.  Should I step up the Digitrax Super Empire Builder or the NCE Power Pro 5 amp system.

 

Thanks for your feedback

I have used both systems; I currently own a NCE PowerCab and love it. But then again I am the only one using my layout which is 15x30 and am only running two trains at a time. The only issue I have with the PowerCab is that it is tethered so you can only go so far around your layout if you are doing switching, etc. I am currently looking to convert my system to radio controlled by purchasing a radio control base unit and hand held controller. This will set me back about $300 plus my intial investment of $150 for the PowerCab unit. So you might want to keep that in mind if you plan on expanding your empire. I have used the Digitrax system at a Club I used to belong to and it worked out really well with the radio controllers; obviously it is a system a lot larger than yours but I did like the ability to walk around and acquire a loco and run it anywhere on the layout. This worked well considering we had anywhere from 4-7 people operating locos. As far as the technical aspect of the two systems, not too qualified to speak on that account. You might want to try and call Tonys Train, they were very helpful to me when I was looking at converting to DCC and they told me based upon my operation, to go with the NCE PowerCab.