Hi folks, this is my first time creating a post so please give me some slack here. Also sorry about spelling issues but I have an issue with spelling. I will try to fix the spelling however I ask you all to work with me on this. And I can not get the spell checker to work (sorry)
Anyway on to the post.
I currently have a DCC system that I am starting to install on a new layout I am building (about half the benchwork is in and about 1/4 of the track and maybe 1/8 of the sceanery).
I currently use a Lenz system. it is basicly a Lenz 90 combined with what I think was called a Lenz 01. giving me the new units using the old unit as a booster and both the knob and push button hand sets (wired) i also have two boosters (forget the numbers) and Magna forces to support this(4 of them). I also have the Lenz CVP(Easy DCC converted) radio system with 2 first generation handsets and 2 of the new (900 think) hand sets for a total of 2 wire hand sets and 4 wireless. And I have the Computer interface so I can have simpler programing of engines.
The layout itself will have about 600' or so of benchwork. That includes the 2 hidden stagging areas. One main yard and two coal marsheling yards. It will have two large coal mines, one medium mine and two smaller mines. It has a coal branch line and a logging branch (Cass WV) all of this is included in the total benchwork area listed above). All this is in a room about 70' by 34'. It will need Two reverser loops plus 1 Y reverse section. I have 6 of the breakers systems that used to be sold by Tony''s Trains but I do not remember the company now (3 old 3 new) this includes 2 reverse sections).
So know that you know a bit about the layout and what I have I will tell you what I want to do. I am thinking about selling off the Lenz/ CVP systems and going to NCE. I am thinking this because I do not like the fact that Lenz has done nothing with thier system to talk about for years, and that the CVP stuff while nice is getting dated and they are more intersted in thier system them supporting Lenz (something I understand).
So the question is what do I need to get from NCE to replace what I have,
Then what do I need to get to finish off the system (not including any hand sets I need for future operators).
And the next question is can I keep the Breakers and the Magna forces (I do not want to replace what I do not need to. Money is a HUGE issue, and the only real reason I am thinking of changing is because I do not want to get stuck with a system that is not being upgraded and that is not worth anything. I would like to get what I can out of it now.
I also am NOT intersted in any other system, I do not like Digitrax, and I do not like the direction that CVP is going. So for right now it is NCE or stay with what I have. I think I would like to have one nice programing throttle but the other 3 can be simple operator throttles. I have looked at the web sites but they are not all that clearly defined. In truth it is like NCE set the page up for people that allready know NCE.
Thanks for any help.
Doug Meyer
South Lyon Mi,
Modeling the C&O New River sub (WV) 1943.
Hey Doug
I to like NCE, have you called one of the suppliers and told them of your needs?I use a Power Cab but you will need more power.Try Litchfield Station, Empire Northern or one of the others. I'm sure you will get a lot of other suggestions.
Good luck.
Lee
Doug
From what you explained in your post is what you really need is a Lenz LH100 programming throttle and the latest upgrade. My club uses the Lenz / CVP radio combo and it has proved to be very reliable system. The LH90 knob throttles are difficult to program with but the LH100 button throttle is real easy to use. You already have all the stuff to make your layout run. Although NCE seems to be an easier to use system it can climb in price considerably. A PH pro with about 4 radio engineer throttles will cost you a pretty penny. I do not know if you will have to replace your existing boosters but your reverse and breaker units will be OK. Throttle plates will have to be changed. Lenz uses the dinn plugs and NCE uses telco.
Lenz latest upgrade is to F28 and 6 addresses in the recall/ escape key. Your radio CVP throttles are no longer upgraded/ supported. I have an old CVP 900 that I use at the club. It was cheaper than a LENZ throttle but only goes up to F4 and 4 digit addresses. If there is a train show in your area that a Lenz rep has a table they can upgrade your Lenz throttles for you. My club gets theirs upgraded at the Hub show in Marlboro Mass. when we set up our modular layout. Since I rarely go above F4 on any of my locos I can live with the limits of my CVP throttle. It is a great engineers throttle with great range.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Yeah actually I have that system also. (I have both types of throttles) however the Lenz system has a work around to get the extra buttons. And as for CVP that is just not being supported well either, so the way I see it Lenz has not done anything new in a long time, and CVP is not supporting Lenz very well so I want to get out while the getting is good. I love the system (Lenz) and Debbie is great and support is great, but I am afraid that this is a dieing system and i do not want to get stuck with it and I sure dont want to spend more to improve it.
So that is why i am looking at getting out of it while I can get some money for it.
Well the good news is that all of your Lenz boosters (and their MF615 power supplies) can be used with an NCE system. The breakers wil work with any DCC system too. You'll need a Power House Pro system for starters. The NCE system can be the command station and those existing boosters can be connected to it. IIRC, most if not all of the Lenz boosters are optocoupled so connection is relatively easy. Directions for doing so can be found in both the NCE manuals and the Lenz manuals.
The bad news (which I believe you already know) is that all of the throttles and their command bus system will need to be replaced with NCE throttles and command bus. NCE has a direct connection for computers. Assuming you are currently using JMRI, changing to NCE would require configuring the new connection and setting your preferences. Rosters, etc. should be good to go.
Martin Myers
Well that is better then I hoped for. If I do not have to swap out the boosters that is a big plus. You don't get much for the boosters. The rest sells ok but not the boosters. So this will help, and also I will not have to change over as much stuff this way.
One question, what about the net work for throttles. The Lenz system useing a panel with both a 5pin din and a phone jack, but it uses a phone cable to connect them, is this not pretty much what the NCE does?
Once again thanks for the info.
Doug M
If you do some research on NCE's web site you can find answers to all of your questions.
For example, about the cab bus:
http://www.ncedcc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=5&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1 There's also a Yahoo group devoted exclusively to questions and answers about NCE DCC products:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NCE-DCC/
Personally, I use the NCE ProCab Radio throttles on my HO scale home layout and we use the same system at our HO scale club. Although pricey, the radio throttles save you from having to string a bunch of control bus wiring around the layout, which can amount to a significant amount of work on a large layout.
I've never used an NCE wired throttle, but the radio throttles have a 6 loco/consist recall stack that you can toggle through to select your trains.
The PowerHouse command station has a serial port that allows you to use a computer and JMRI's Decoder Pro.
DouglasJMeyerOne question, what about the net work for throttles. The Lenz system useing a panel with both a 5pin din and a phone jack, but it uses a phone cable to connect them, is this not pretty much what the NCE does
I have been using NCE since 1999-2000 and have always been happy with it. I have a three deck layout consuming a basement 34ft by 29ft. I have the command station and four boosters.
I will add a comment about the wired cabs. I have the wiring and plugs in place for the wired system since when I started radio was still a dream. I left the cab wiring in place when I added radio and find that often, when I am working by myself or just running that I prefer the cabled cabs over the radio. First I am not eating up batteries, second I can move from plug to plug easily while the train is running, no change in speed. Third, if you did have some issues at some time with the radio, you have the back up of the tethered cabs, and vice versa. Consider setting up for both. You may not regret it.
Bob
If it should ever be necessary, the radio cabs can be use tethered because they do have a phone jack on the bottom.
I bought RJ12 recepticles and wall plates from a local electrical & phone equipment supplier for about a third of the cost of the NCE plates.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Last year I downloaded a .pdf file entitled "NCE System Reference Manual" that contained detailed information on the pinouts and how to make your own cables for all NCE components, but a Google search can't locate it now, and it's not in the NCE document archive.
Does anyone here know how to find that document? It was based on information provided by NCE but was compliled by one Mark Gurries, and the cover says that NCE was not involved in its preparation .
cacole Last year I downloaded a .pdf file entitled "NCE System Reference Manual" that contained detailed information on the pinouts and how to make your own cables for all NCE components, but a Google search can't locate it now, and it's not in the NCE document archive. Does anyone here know how to find that document? It was based on information provided by NCE but was compliled by one Mark Gurries, and the cover says that NCE was not involved in its preparation .
I think what you are looking for is as follows:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EAM4S13oVwNtnaahCL3tTqpKeFI0wQU1FccNAzfoMmjVbpFdsji23AjjAScF1KaKocE9Oi42nA-i_mkBxC_Pwn8Sy9ymEFgZffzG/Misc_NCE_Info/NCE_Tech_Manual.pdf
This is in the Files section of the yahoo NCE group. I'm not sure if you need to be a member of this group to get the access, but if you downloaded it before you probably are a member.
Regards
Lot's of Mark's stuff is here:
Nce site on Yahoo open to all who belong to Yahoo. Very good site, lotsof expertise there.
Thanks for the help so far.
pastorbobNce site on Yahoo open to all who belong to Yahoo.
True, but I believe that you still have to "join" the group.
Anyway, I checked the link I posted to the electrical documentation answer above, and get a link broken message. However, if you join the NCE group, that documentation is located in the Files section of that group site.
mfm37 Well the good news is that all of your Lenz boosters (and their MF615 power supplies) can be used with an NCE system. The breakers wil work with any DCC system too. You'll need a Power House Pro system for starters. The NCE system can be the command station and those existing boosters can be connected to it. IIRC, most if not all of the Lenz boosters are optocoupled so connection is relatively easy. Directions for doing so can be found in both the NCE manuals and the Lenz manuals.The bad news (which I believe you already know) is that all of the throttles and their command bus system will need to be replaced with NCE throttles and command bus. NCE has a direct connection for computers. Assuming you are currently using JMRI, changing to NCE would require configuring the new connection and setting your preferences. Rosters, etc. should be good to go.Martin Myers
I agree with Martin.
However, even if the throttle bus wiring is the same as NCE, you should make sure that if aux power is plugged in to any of the Lenz panels, it won't be shorted out by the NCE system.The Digitrax LocoNet is the same as the NCE throttle bus, but the aux power is into a direct short.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Ok so that brings up a points. Once upon a time Lenz and NCE where based on a lot of the same standards. So.....
According to CVPs web page they have a wireless system that works with NCE is this the same one that works with Lenz (the CVP web site does not explain a lot)
Also has anyone ever figured out how to make a Lenz handset work with NCE?