Is there a really reliable DCC system?

[rrinker]

Couple of things. Number one would eb to clear the Zephyr memory by setting OpSw 39 to closed. This totally wipes the memory and resets everythign to factory default.

 Second, there was one update to the Zephyr, both of mine, even the one purchased 4+ years ago, had the newer version, so if you somehow got the old version it was either some dusty old stock unit or used. That may be involved, there is no handy reference as to what things were changed in the version update. The version is what shows up after the CS when you shut off the track power, ie CS 10. The real odd thing is that the 'update' has a lower number than the old version.

 Third - the Super EMpire Builder exists to package a bunch of upgrade components - if you need to add an additional booster and a throttle to your system, it's cheaper to buy the SEB than buy a DT400/402 and a DB150 seperately. Plus you get a UP5 in the deal. And an extra loconet tester. I don;t think they should be selling the SEB as a system to run your layout, not for lack of CV readback, but because there is no dedicated program track. It's FAR too easy to a beginner to accidently program every loco they own at the same time. Sure you can reduce the chances by installing a DPDT switch leading to an isolated piece of track tso that only this isoalted track gets power when programming - but forget to flip the switch and guess what? Everything gets programmed. This is an issue with the NCE PowerCab as well. They do have an automatic switcher that turns off the power to the main track when you go into program mode, this supposedly works on the DB150 as well, and would be almost a REQUIREMENT to have, foolproof and automatic, no accidently programming everythign because you forgot to flip a toggle. What they need to do is flesh out the range with a new top end system that handles more than 120 slots, and make the current Super Chief the middle system.

                          --Randy

 

[60YOKID]

MRRSparky

f)  This command station recently came back from in-warranty repair because it would randomly assign different status numbers to my locomotives, 7 in total.  I still does exactly the same thing that I sent it in for, after the manufacturer supposedly replaced all the command station internals!  Nothing else is connected to it other than the layout.

 

I believe the status of a decoder is changed by reprogramming the decoder. Are you certain the command station is reprogramming your decoders at random? Or, am I misunderstanding you.

This sounds highly unlikely but, I would suggest you check the option switch settings as described in the operators manual pages 116 - 120, because if one of these is set incorrectly, this can lead to unexpected results.  You may as well replace the battery in the booster as well, since this can also lead to intermittent and goofy operation. I would purge the memory after you do these steps.

I've had my Digitrax system for over six years and have added three DB150's to provide more power as my layout has expanded. I did have one booster problem and that was taken care of by a phone call and changing the battery. 

My system has exhibited some rather strange problems from time to time, but it was always caused by operator error LOL!  There is quite a lot of information in the manual, and if anything, the Digitrax system is a bit complex.  However, I must say it has been most reliable.

[MRRSparky]

Before I called Digitrax Tech Support for help, I had gone through all the Op Sw settings to confirm that the settings were correct.  Then Tech Support talked me through resetting Op Sw 39 to clear the command station memory. 

The randomness of the status codes is puzzling.  Each time I re-power the Zephyr, the same loco can turn up as status code 128, 14, 28 or Tri.  The Tri code is the one most frequently appearing.

Someone on the Digitrax Yahoo Group wrote that this problem has turned up on three Zephyr's of owners in Great Britain.  In any event, it goes back to Digitrax for the second time, three weeks after having it returned from them to supposedly fix this same problem.  This time, it is being sent directly to Dave in Tech Support.  I have hope.  I really don't want to start learning a new system.

[rrinker]

 I saw that. The whoel thing is rather strange. Am I reading your intent correctly when yoo say everythign worked fine when you first got it and then the problem came up later? And that it did work ok when you first got it back, then it started acting up again? It's hard to think of some way for this to be a problem that gradually creeps up on a previously workign unit - my best guess is a failure to reset the microcontrolelr on power up, which is likely controlled by a simple resistor and capacitor circuit (I haven't taken my Zephyr apart to examine the circuitry, but this is how it is commonly done). So, a failed capacitor? That could make the microcontrolelr start up in some crazy state without everythign cleared, but this ought to be obvious when viewing the slots through JMRI or Loconet CHecker BEFORE selecting any loco addresses to run. Plus with a complete replacement of the circuit board on the first repair trip, that should ahve fixed it. Unless they have in their assembly line a stock of those really bad counterfeit capacitors from a few years ago (a very common cause of computer failures at the time) in which case even a repalcement board could have a bad one.

 Just some random thoughts at a higher technical level than the help line peopel are goign to know about. But if there's a specific repair tech assigned to look at this unit, you shoiuld be in good hands.

 Oh yeah, once it started acting up, did you ever try powering it up WITHOUT the DT400 plugged in? If you get a chance to talk to the tech, make sure they test it the same way you were using it.

                                --Randy

 

[Lee 1234]

Your description of your problems and your description of your room with the thick carpet screams this in my ear. Electro Static Discharge!!!! I would make sure that every bit of electronics has the chassis connected to the ground on the wall receptacle. I would enclose things that are not enclosed with metal boxes and ground them. ESD compromised electronics fails or operates strangely. That sounds like what you have.

[MRRSparky]

To clarify, I've had the repaired Zephyr a little over two weeks, and the random status code problem has been a problem since the return.  What I was trying to say was that the Zephyr worked just fine until about 6 months after I bought it.  I just put up with having to status edit each time I turned on the power.

I could have lived with that but I have been trying to match the speed tables on 3 locos with zero success.  It seemed that none would respond as I expected, almost like they weren't getting the signal.  Yet when I read back the speed table CVs, they seemed right. 

THEN I read in the manual that the Z command station (and maybe all of D's devices) will not allow speed tables to work if they are in "Tri" mode.  THAT led me to suspect that those locos were in fact operating in Trinary even though I edited the status codes.

So, I just sent it back to D for another try.  I guess this is as good a time as any to rewire the layout, a task I had been putting off trying to figure out the command station situation.  I am one of the few who actually enjoys electronics and wiring.  I am really good at drawing wiring schematics, so no I have an opportunity to practice.

 

[CSX Robert]

MRRSparky

I read in the manual that the Z command station (and maybe all of D's devices) will not allow speed tables to work if they are in "Tri" mode.

Actually, the Zephyr does not support Trinary mode(as a command station, it does when used as a throttle and booster with a DCS100). You can status edit a loco to Trinary, but the Zephyr sends either 28 or 128 speed step commands(in playing around with it, I have had it do both at different times) if you do. If your Zephyr was actually sending out Trinary commands, I doubt that your locos would respond at all. While Digitrax used to make multi-format decoders that would respond to trinary commands, I don't think they do anymore, and I don't know of any other common DCC decoders that would. When you talk about programming speed tables, are you talking about 28 speed step tables or are you talking about Vstart, Vmid, and Vmax(most people do mean the 28 step table when they say speed table, but sometimes Vstart, Vmid, and Vmax are refered to as a 3-step speed table)? First of all, you have to make sure that CV29 is programmed correctly to enable the speed table. Also, I do not know if any current deocders are like this, but I do know that some older decoders do not use the speed table if you are running them in 128 speed step mode.

[MRRSparky]

Thanks for your very interesting reply. I did not know the the Z did not support Trinary. However, that's what my DT 400 throttle displayed, along with 14, 28 and 128 randomly. When I tried status editing using the Z, when my throttle displayed Trinay, the Z was displaying something I could not read. As to the speed tables, I was using the Speed Tables, not the 3-step method. All the decoders are new generation ones that support it. CV 29 was set for "50."

[MRRSparky]

Here's the end of the saga (I hope):  I have already sent the Z back a second time and have now sent D the DT 400.  According to Dave in Tech Support, there is an upgrade to the throttle and some additional minor change to the Z. 

What that is, I don't know as the first repair called for having the mother board replaced.  I interpreted that to mean that all the "guts" had been replaced. 

He says all is well; we will see once I get both returned to me.  The shipping with handling has kind of gotten expensive, but D did not charge for the repair to the Z (it was barely in warranty), and there was no charge for the repair to the DT 400.

 

[jamnest]

Sorry to hear about all of your problems.  I have been a satisfied Digitrax owner/user for over ten years.  I started with a Digitrax Radio Super Chief (DCS100 and DT100R) and it is still going strong.  Since that date I have added a two DB150 boosters, MS100 (computer interface), one DT100R, two DT300R and a DT400R throttles.  I have recently purchased a PR3 to use with my laptop computer, however the MS100 still works great with the desk top computer.  I will shortly be purchasing the new UT4D throttles.

Last year I had to send my DT400R in for repair due to too many trips to the canyon (concrete basement floor); and sent the DCS100 in at the same time for a function upgrade.

 

[MRRSparky]

Here is the continuation of the saga:  after two months for Digitrax to go through my Zephyr, they determined there was a software timing issue between my DT400 which went back with the Zephyr on its second trip, and the Zephyr.

Got it back, installed it, and found that the errant status code issue is solved.  HOWEVER, now I cannot rear or write CVs. 

That's right - now I can't even change CVs, much less read them.  An error message pops up that reads "Failed-No d."  So, they are supposedly sending me a new Zephyr with a prepaid return lable for the much travelled old one.  I wonder how long it will take to get that to happen?

[Silver Pilot]

Sounds like its time to ditch the Digitrax system and change to something more 'reliable'.  You've given Digitrax more than enough opportunity to correct the problem and it keeps coming back either un-repaired or with a different issue.  Has any of the experienced Digitrax users ever heard of a 'timing issue' between a Zephyr and a DT400?  It would make me wonder about the usual recommendation made here about buying a Zephyr and a DT400 or adding a DT400 later if there is the possibility that this timing issue is really an issue - or is it just an excuse from Digitrax to hid their inability to figure out what the problem really is?

[simon1966]

Silver Pilot

It would make me wonder about the usual recommendation made here about buying a Zephyr and a DT400 or adding a DT400 later if there is the possibility that this timing issue is really an issue

Never heard of it before.  Must be a really rare thing to happen.  My 2 DT400's now both DT402D's play just fine with my system.  I subscribe to the Digitrax Yahoo group, where the bulk of issues get discussed, and don't recall hearing of this issue.   Sounds like Digitrax has acknowledged that they can't sort this one out since they are now replacing the whole thing.  Suggesting that a reputable company would somehow make this up to hide a deficiency is a bit strong IMO.  Clearly this is not a common issue with the product or there would be many more folks complaining about it.

If I were the OP, I would probably be considering switching to another brand.  If he believes that in good faith Digitrax has tried to resolve the problem and they come through with the replacement system, then perhaps he will give them another try.

[Phoebe Vet]

I, too, suspect the static discharge theorem.

I have had a Digitrax Super Chief for about 3 years and have never had a problem of any kind.

I have the Super Chief, a DT400, a UT4, 8 DS64s, a PR3, 4 UP5s, a UR92, and the fat guy in the red suit is bringing the DT402D.

[jbinkley60]

Phoebe Vet

I, too, suspect the static discharge theorem.

I have had a Digitrax Super Chief for about 3 years and have never had a problem of any kind.

I have the Super Chief, a DT400, a UT4, 8 DS64s, a PR3, 4 UP5s, a UR92, and the fat guy in the red suit is bringing the DT402D.

I've got essentially the same system (1 less DS64 and 2 more boosters) and except for 1 DS64 failure, I've never had a problem in 4+ years.  The fat guy is upgrading my DT400 to a DT402D and is delivering a UR92 to add to my UR91.  I've had very good reliability with Digitrax products.

 

[richg1998]

I have a home layout. 8 feet by 20 feet. I use a NCE Power Cab. No issues. A DCC system is only as reliable as the users knowledge of DCC and how to read the instruction manuals.

Rich

[yankee flyer]

richg1998

I have a home layout. 8 feet by 20 feet. I use a NCE Power Cab. No issues. A DCC system is only as reliable as the users knowledge of DCC and how to read the instruction manuals.

Rich

 

I never understood why, but I too had a running saga with a DT Zephyr. The fourth time I sent it back I ask for my money back and they complied. I then bought a NCE power cab, plugged it in without changing anything on the layout, have never had a problem. I use a bench programing track and Decoder Pro but still like the ability to read and write CVs with the Power Cab. I don't have a large layout, 5' by 19' and eleven locos. With the Power Cab I can run up to five locos depending on the size of the trains. Not bad for what it cost me.
Satisfied customer.

Lee

[MRRSparky]

Well, Digitrax had UPS pick up my dead Zephyr yesterday and they are sending a new one to arrive around 12/22.  I have recently been thinking more strongly about replacing the Digitrax system, the Zephyr, the DT 400 and three UP 3s with the NCE Power Cab. 

Do their plug-ins (equivalent to UP 3) use the same cable as Digitrax's Loconet?  What do I need to connect DecoderPro to my layout?  I have a Loconet - USB now.

I am going to continue with the Digitrax system for now when the replacement arrives. I've spend the last ten years learning the intracacies  But if I run into difficulties,  I will make the switch.

[simon1966]

You will need all new stuff, NCE has its own PC interface as well as NCE panels.  It is worth noting that you can not unplug and move the PowerCab throttle without the layout shutting down, unless you go the extra step and get a Smart Booster as well.  If you have a reverse loop on your layout make sure you hang on and wait for the new Smartbooster, which is still temporarily unavailable according to the NCE web site.  A friend of mine ended up ditching his Power Cab and switching to a Zephyr because he was never able to get a reverse loop to work with the system.  NCE acknowledged the issue and the new Smartbooster is supposedly the solution.

[tstage]

To add to what Simon already said above, the new (updated) Smart Booster (SB3) will have an "a" suffix added after the name - e.g. SB3a.  This will address the reversing loop issue with the original SB3, as well as make the new SB3a capable of short protection using 1149 Auto light bulbs.

Tom

[yankee flyer]

 Good news. 

The reversing loop is not a problem. Just use a switch to reverse the polarity when you throw the turn out. those of us that have a small lay outs (5' X 20') and run four or five locos don't need all the extra boosters. I operate on some what of a limited budget. If I have extra locos on the layout I run them onto a siding and cut the power to that line. I have eleven locos and fifty cars if I put them all on the track at the same time there is no way to run anything, so i don't need all the extra power. IMHO    I always remember the KISS principle.

Have fun

Lee

[mfm37]

MRRSparky

Do their plug-ins (equivalent to UP 3) use the same cable as Digitrax's Loconet?  What do I need to connect DecoderPro to my layout?  I have a Loconet - USB now.

 

 The NCE panels can use the same cables but DO NOT use your UP3's with an NCE system. NCE's will go in the same hole. Both have six wire jacks but the wires do not connect to the same things in the system. e.g. Pin 5 on NCE is +12 volts DC. On a UP3, pin 5 is ground and is also shorted to pin 2. UP3's will short out an NCE big time. 

Martin Myers

[jjjwar]

   My system is Digitrax and so far I have had no problems.I have an old DCS100 command station booster ( 1999 I believe ) and it still works great. Right now it is just being used as a booster. I also have a DCS200 that has been problem free. For throttles I have a DT400, a UT2 and three DT100s. The DT100s are from 1996 if I remember right and are the ones before the DT100IR. One now needs new encoders but the other two still work great. I have the encoders for the worn out one I just need to find time to replace them as Digitrax no longer services the DT100 due to how old it is. I did have an NCE Power cab system for a small switching layout I had but I have since sold the NCE system and used the cash to buy a few Digitrax DS64 stationary decoders. The NCE system worked good and I had no problems with it but I prefer Digitrax. As for decoders I have a few Digitrax DH163 decoders but only one is being used as I have been outfitting my steam locomotives with Tsunami sound decoder and only have one left to do now.

 

Wayne Reid

 

 

[jbinkley60]

jbinkley60

Phoebe Vet

I, too, suspect the static discharge theorem.

I have had a Digitrax Super Chief for about 3 years and have never had a problem of any kind.

I have the Super Chief, a DT400, a UT4, 8 DS64s, a PR3, 4 UP5s, a UR92, and the fat guy in the red suit is bringing the DT402D.

I've got essentially the same system (1 less DS64 and 2 more boosters) and except for 1 DS64 failure, I've never had a problem in 4+ years.  The fat guy is upgrading my DT400 to a DT402D and is delivering a UR92 to add to my UR91.  I've had very good reliability with Digitrax products.

 

I got an E-mail from Digitrax saying that the fat guy driving the brown truck will be delivering my upgraded DT402D today. 

 

[Truck]

Here we go somebody bashing MRC with out all the FACTS. 

[Silver Pilot]

MRRSparky

Do their plug-ins (equivalent to UP 3) use the same cable as Digitrax's Loconet?  What do I need to connect DecoderPro to my layout?  I have a Loconet - USB now.

IIRC,a UP-3 will work with NCE, a UP-5 will not.