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Converting Walthers "DCC"/"DC" turnouts to "live frog" (selective control)?

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  • Member since
    November 2006
  • 129 posts
Converting Walthers "DCC"/"DC" turnouts to "live frog" (selective control)?
Posted by astapleford on Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:15 AM

I recently purchased two Walthers Code 83 No. 6 "DCC" / "DC" turnouts. I have been using the older Walthers and Shinohara "selective control" or "live frog" turnouts for years. The Walthers catalog states that to convert to live frog method, that there is an access point to do this. There were no instructions that came with these turnouts. Nor are there any marks or an indication of where the "access" point is located under the frog. I called Walthers and talked to the service/repair department. They weren't sure. They said to cut the jumpers under the ties, and add jumpers to the frog from the closure rails and from the frog to the diverting rails. I have experimented with this, and it probably will work, however, that seems like very "invasive" surgery to a relatively expensive turnout, when there is supposed to be an access point to do the conversion!

As much as I'd like to convert my layout to DCC, I can't afford to, and besides my current selective control system works just fine. I want to maintain my code 83 rail, too.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or know how this should be done without doing grievous damage to these turnouts? I suggested to Walthers that they provide instructions so that a user will do the right thing to do the conversion.

Thanks.

 

  • Member since
    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 2,899 posts
Posted by Paul3 on Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:57 AM

astapleford,
So, do you want to take a Walthers DCC-friendly switch and turn it into a power routing switch?  Or do you just want a live frog?

If you cut the internal connections, then wired the point rails to the departure rails, you can turn it into a power routing switch.  Then you have the option of wiring up the frog either with a Tortoise, a snap relay, a DPDT toggle, etc.  Or you could even wire the frog to the point rails directly.  The problem is that the entire section of track being routed to is purely dependant on point contact, which is notoriously difficult to keep clean.  I wouldn't recommend it.

If you just want a live frog, just cut away some of the ties under the frog (nippers or an X-Acto works well), and solder a wire to the bottom of the rail (at my club, we've done this dozens of times so far).  Feed the wire into the benchwork, and connect it to a Tortoise, a DPDT, a snap relay, or any of the many other ways that have been invented to make frogs live.

Or, you can just live with the 1" dead frog.

As for the DCC "I can't afford it" line...I think that's mostly a red herring with most people that say so.  Not saying that you are one of them, but I hear this a lot on the 'net, and it's usually those with hundreds of engines and a whole lot of ignorance about DCC that say they can't afford it.  I've heard wild claims by these folks that have stated they can't afford DCC because decoders cost $50 ea. (false), that they all have to have sound at $100 ea. (false), that they will have to get rid of all their brass locos because you can't convert them to DCC (false), that they will have to rip up all their trackwork for DCC (false), that they will have to re-wire their layout for DCC (false), and that they will have to convert all their locos to DCC all at the same time (false), etc.

The reality is that they certainly can afford it, they just choose to spend their money on other things like locomotives.  And that's fine, but they just can't say "I can't afford it" while proudly announcing that they will be buying 10 Atlas locos next month.  The real folks who can't afford DCC are those with small collections who can't afford to buy even one new Atlas loco, let alone 10 of them.  Those I have real sympathy for.

Paul A. Cutler III
*******************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*******************

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:10 PM

astapleford
The Walthers catalog states that to convert to live frog method, that there is an access point to do this.

I guess I'm not sure what the Walthers catalog actually means.  The catalog illustration note reads "isolated frog with built-in connection; an access point allows you to convert to a live frog if desired".

I don't think that a conversion to a live frog necessarily means that by doing so you will have changed the turnout design to power routing.  I think it just means that you can power the frog if you want.

And there is an "access point"...sort of.  If you turn the turnout over and take a look at the plastic runners under the rails, you'll notice that there are two areas without plastic under the frog wing rails at the points where the wing rails are kinked to allow them to guide the wheel flanges.  You can solder to either one of these points and run the wire to your electrical contacts of choice.  Of course you could just solder the wire to one of the wing rails from the topside and accomplish the same thing.  I believe that the turnout will work electrically without having to cut any of the jumpers because the frog is electrically isolated from the rest of the turnout.

But as Paul3 asked above, why do you want to do this?  If you are going into a siding just install insulators at the 4 frog end rails and power the siding through a toggle switch.  Or were you trying to avoid the necessity of the toggle switch?

I do understand the frustration of having turnouts that don't do what they used to do, or doing what they did before and you'd rather have the new design.  I have DCC, and I'm in the process of converting some of the older Walthers code 83 power routing turnouts into the so-called DCC friendly variety.  So I have to insulate the frog and add jumpers similar to the ones they are suggesting be removed.  Too bad you didn't have this question last year...I might have offered to trade with you.  And that's another idea.  I bet there are a couple folks that would be glad to get rid of what you want for what you have.

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