Hi!
I'm very new to the world of DCC and am building out a new layout using the Digitrax Super Chief. The decoder equipped locos (6 BLI Paragons) are currently all using address "03", and as I am just doing basic lower level layout testing, this is OK right now.
Obviously I want to change the loco addresses and do other changes to various CVs as I get educated. But after plodding thru the Digitrax manual, I am wondering if it would be easier for me to just program from my PC.
My question is, what exactly would I need to program loco decoders utilizing the PC? And, would I need to have the Digitrax control station/booster/power supply to do this? Lastly, am I better off just programming the "normal" way using the DT400 and a programming track?
Thank you all,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Mobilman,
If you are only programming addresses, I would just use the throttle that came with your Super Chief. It should be pretty straightforward. I have a NCE Power Cab and I can program it in ~30 sec. You don't really need a computer to do that.
However, if you are wanting to speed match locomotives or store their CVs (just in case you ever reset the decoders to factory defaults), then a PC and JMRI Decoder Pro makes things easier and quite convenient.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Tom is correct.
If all you're ever going to do is change the addresses, use your DT400. But if you're ever going to tweak any other CV's and want to do it easily and quickly, with a (some) backup copy(ies) so you can restore, compare, and otherwise have fun with it, use JMRI.
Now, there are a couple different choices as to how to connect your computer (it doesn't have to be a PC if you're using JMRI) to your layout/programming track. One is the LocoBuffer USB, which will connect your computer to the LocoNet. It's well supported by it's manufacturer and is opto-isolated, which can help prevent issues on some layouts.
Another option is the Digitrax PR3. The advantages of the PR3 over the LocoBuffer is that it can be used stand-alone, with out a command station (I sometime bring my PR3 with me on trips and use it with my laptop to program CV's on the road). Of course, it can also be used to connect to the LocoNet and it is also able to load sound schemes onto Digitrax sound decoders.
You may also see the MS100 mentioned, but I would tend stay away from it. It's simply a level shifter that depends on specific voltages from the serial port and uses a non-standard baud rate, etc. In some instances it may work wonderfully, but in others not at all. You're better off with either the PR3 or the LocoBuffer.
HTH, Steve
Stevert Tom is correct. If all you're ever going to do is change the addresses, use your DT400. But if you're ever going to tweak any other CV's and want to do it easily and quickly, with a (some) backup copy(ies) so you can restore, compare, and otherwise have fun with it, use JMRI. Now, there are a couple different choices as to how to connect your computer (it doesn't have to be a PC if you're using JMRI) to your layout/programming track. One is the LocoBuffer USB, which will connect your computer to the LocoNet. It's well supported by it's manufacturer and is opto-isolated, which can help prevent issues on some layouts. Another option is the Digitrax PR3. The advantages of the PR3 over the LocoBuffer is that it can be used stand-alone, with out a command station (I sometime bring my PR3 with me on trips and use it with my laptop to program CV's on the road). Of course, it can also be used to connect to the LocoNet and it is also able to load sound schemes onto Digitrax sound decoders. You may also see the MS100 mentioned, but I would tend stay away from it. It's simply a level shifter that depends on specific voltages from the serial port and uses a non-standard baud rate, etc. In some instances it may work wonderfully, but in others not at all. You're better off with either the PR3 or the LocoBuffer. HTH,Steve
HTH,Steve
Fully concur. I'll add that I'd lean towards the PR3 (although I have both a PR3 and Locobuffer II). With it you can do stand-alone programming and download sound files to Digitrax decoders. For simply changing the address, the DT400 is fine. I prefer the programming track as opposed to Ops programming on the main.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Hi again!
Ha, in a moment of clarity I managed to program the locos to unique numbers (loco road numbers) so that problem is history.
While I am not ready to "get fancy" with the other CVs just yet, it is my understanding that all I need to program decoders in my "computer room" (as opposed to the layout room) is a Digitrax PR3 and a length of test track for the loco to be programmed.
I also understand that I will not need a power supply or controller or throttle or booster.
Is the above correct????
Thank you for your help,
PS: It would be nice if the manual came in beginner, intermediate, and advanced versions!
Almost correct. You will need a power supply for the PR3 to use it as a stand alone programmer. Digitrax reccomend the PS14. Some have suggested that this is under powered.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I always encourage the club members to program with their throttle. That doesn't mean that I don't use JMRI. Sometimes the computer and/or interface (locobuffer) aren't available. For a simple address change or to tweak a CV or two it can be faster to just use the throttle.
mobilman44 Hi again! Ha, in a moment of clarity I managed to program the locos to unique numbers (loco road numbers) so that problem is history. While I am not ready to "get fancy" with the other CVs just yet, it is my understanding that all I need to program decoders in my "computer room" (as opposed to the layout room) is a Digitrax PR3 and a length of test track for the loco to be programmed. I also understand that I will not need a power supply or controller or throttle or booster. Is the above correct???? Thank you for your help, Mobilman44 PS: It would be nice if the manual came in beginner, intermediate, and advanced versions!
One of the big differences between the Locobuffer II and the PR3 is that the PR3 has track outputs so you can program without needing a control station. Yes, a power supply is needed, if you are going to do stand-alone programming. The PR3 dopes not need a power supply if you are using it with a command station. You can then switch the PR3 to work with your Super Chief system, when needed. The Locobuffer II needs a command station to operate.
mobilman44 While I am not ready to "get fancy" with the other CVs just yet, it is my understanding that all I need to program decoders in my "computer room" (as opposed to the layout room) is a Digitrax PR3 and a length of test track for the loco to be programmed. I also understand that I will not need a power supply or controller or throttle or booster.
You will need a PS 14 power supply if your USB port does not conduct power. It would appear some do and some don't. My PR 3 would not work till hooked the PS 14 up.
Seems I all so cannot read sound decoders when I use my PR 3 as a stand alone system. Yet some people have been able to? For what ever reason I will have to hook my Digitrax DB 150 to the PR 3 to read sound decoders. In my case that is not a big deal, my computer, DB 150 and PR 3 is on my desk in the train garage.
Far as hardware the PR 3 is OK, if it would read my sound decoders as a stand alone it would be great. Key is Decoder Pro software.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken You will need a PS 14 power supply if your USB port does not conduct power. It would appear some do and some don't. My PR 3 would not work till hooked the PS 14 up.
It needs a power supply if you're going to use it as a stand-alone programmer (PR3 mode). It does not need a power supply if you're using it to connect to the LocoNet (MS100 mode)
cudaken Seems I all so cannot read sound decoders when I use my PR 3 as a stand alone system. Yet some people have been able to? For what ever reason I will have to hook my Digitrax DB 150 to the PR 3 to read sound decoders. In my case that is not a big deal, my computer, DB 150 and PR 3 is on my desk in the train garage.
What? A DB150 has no readback circuitry in it. How can hooking a DB150 to your PR3 give the PR3 an ability it already has?
cudaken Far as hardware the PR 3 is OK, if it would read my sound decoders as a stand alone it would be great. Key is Decoder Pro software. Cuda Ken
I use my PR3 with a generic 12v power supply I got from Tony's several years ago, because that's what I had handy when I bought the PR3. It has never failed to ready any sound decoder* I've tried, and that includes several versions of QSI and Soundtraxx (as well as Digitrax, of course).
* I tried reading an MRC sound decoder once, just for fun and to prove a point. Since it was an early MRC sound decoder that didn't support readback, of course it failed. But that's a known decoder issue, not a PR3 issue.
Steve
Stevert What? A DB150 has no readback circuitry in it. How can hooking a DB150 to your PR3 give the PR3 an ability it already has?
Steve, reason I need to hook it to the DB 150 is so the PR 3 will have the sufficient power to read a sound decoder. That was what I was told by Digitrax. All so the reason Tonys train world sells a booster that can be used with the PR 3 and other computer interface.
Far as you using a generic 12v power supply, have a part number? You are not the only person that has said that when it comes to the PR 3.
cudakenStevert What? A DB150 has no readback circuitry in it. How can hooking a DB150 to your PR3 give the PR3 an ability it already has? Steve, reason I need to hook it to the DB 150 is so the PR 3 will have the sufficient power to read a sound decoder. That was what I was told by Digitrax. All so the reason Tonys train world sells a booster that can be used with the PR 3 and other computer interface.
I think you may have misinterpreted what "Digitrax" told you. The PR3 requires a separate power supply when it's used in PR3 mode, whether it's connected to LocoNet (ie, the DB150) or not. In fact, since the PR3 can be in either programming (PR3) mode or LocoNet (MS100) mode, I'd have to think the two portions of the circuitry are completely separate.
As for the programming boosters, they connect between the programming track outputs and the programming track itself. Since the DB150 has no programming track outputs, the use of a programming booster wouldn't apply.
And I don't know how it would be possible to use the DB150 as a programming booster with a PR3, if that's what you mean. I've never heard of anyone doing that, and since that's not how a DB150 was designed/intended to be used, I wouldn't want to be the one who tries it out!
Far as you using a generic 12v power supply, have a part number? You are not the only person that has said that when it comes to the PR 3. Cuda Ken
I'm sure I'm not the only person who's said that, because that's all it takes. As I mentioned. mine is whatever Tony's was selling a few years ago. Probably the same one they have listed now, the TTE-XDTX. But I can't be certain since my receipt and packaging are long-gone.
Well Steve, I have the PS 14 power supply hooked to the PR 3. I can read and write none Digitrax decoders just fine. Sit a sound engine on and get error 308?
I will be using the rail B and A off the DB 150 to my test track that is on my desk. One last call to Digitrax as well.
Cuda ken
Just tried hooking the PR 3 to the DB 150 still got error 301 and 308. Off to start a new post.
cudaken Well Steve, I have the PS 14 power supply hooked to the PR 3. I can read and write none Digitrax decoders just fine. Sit a sound engine on and get error 308? I will be using the rail B and A off the DB 150 to my test track that is on my desk. One last call to Digitrax as well. Cuda ken
cudakenJust tried hooking the PR 3 to the DB 150 still got error 301 and 308. Off to start a new post.
Okay, Ken, you're aware that the DB150 does not physically have the circuitry to read back decoders, right? And that connecting a PR3 to a DB150 via LocoNet does not add that circuitry to the DB150?
So if you're trying to read back via the DB150, with or without the PR3 connected to it, that won't work. All the PR3 can do is pass LocoNet traffic to the DB150.
And if you're trying to read back via the PR3, the DB150 should not even be in the equation since the PR3 has it's own readback ability.
At this point I'm not really sure how you have things hooked up, or what you expect them to be able to do.
And oh yeah, a 301 error is "No locomotive detected", and a 308 is "No acknowledge from locomotive".
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/Errors.shtml
Based on what I think you seem to be trying, neither of those errors are a surprise to me.
Steve, how I have had my PR 3 wired and want to use it. PR 3 is hooked to my computer with supplied USB cord. PR 3 has the PS 14 power supply hooked to it. Programing tack is hooked to the PR 3.
This is how the book shows to hook it up, and it works fine with my none sound Digitrax decoders. When I try to read a sound engine I get error 301 and 308.
That is why I hooked it to my DB 150, hoping the 5 amp track power would give sufficient power to the rails so the PR 3 could read the sound decoder. That is the only reason I tried it that way.
cudaken That is why I hooked it to my DB 150, hoping the 5 amp track power would give sufficient power to the rails so the PR 3 could read the sound decoder. That is the only reason I tried it that way. Cuda Ken
Hooked it up to the DB150 how? Via LocoNet? That won't increase the output of the PR3. Remember that LocoNet is signal-level (ie, communication, not power transmission). And since the PR3's modes are "either-or", if you have it in programming mode it's going to ignore the LocoNet input (MS100 mode) anyway.
If you hooked the DB150's output to the same programming track that the PR3's programming outputs were hooked to, there's a good chance you would fry the programming circuitry in the PR3. I don't have any inside information, but I can't imagine the PR3 was designed to withstand having five amps continuously fed back into it's programming outputs.
Plus, keep in mind how CV readback works in the first place: The programmer sends a command, and the decoder responds by pulsing the motor (or other load). The programmer senses ("reads") the increased current draw caused by that pulse and interprets that as the answer.
But if you're adding a full-power DCC signal (the DB150's output) to the programming track, would the decoder even see the inquiries from the programmer?
And even if it does, and responds, would the programmer be able to "read" those responses while it's being blasted with the much higher-current DCC signal from the booster (assuming that high booster current doesn't just blow out the programmer's circuitry altogether)?
I would suggest that you purchase a SPROG to use with DecoderPro. It allows you to program without the need of a command station. This allows you to work away from your layout.
I use one and have been able to program all kinds of decoders including Bachmann, Atlas, Digitrax, Soundtraxx, QSI.
bawbyk I would suggest that you purchase a SPROG to use with DecoderPro. It allows you to program without the need of a command station. This allows you to work away from your layout. I use one and have been able to program all kinds of decoders including Bachmann, Atlas, Digitrax, Soundtraxx, QSI.
A PR3 will do the same thing, will allow you to hook to Loconet and program on your layout with your computer and can download sound files to Digitrax sound decoders. Decoder Pro has PR3 support.
jbinkley60 bawbyk I would suggest that you purchase a SPROG to use with DecoderPro. It allows you to program without the need of a command station. This allows you to work away from your layout. I use one and have been able to program all kinds of decoders including Bachmann, Atlas, Digitrax, Soundtraxx, QSI. A PR3 will do the same thing, will allow you to hook to Loconet and program on your layout with your computer and can download sound files to Digitrax sound decoders. Decoder Pro has PR3 support.
And it is less expensive. Tony sell the PR3 for $68.00.
Jack W.