I have recently made the leap over to DCC and have noticed that a few of my locomotives typically Ahtearn's are very sensative to clean track. Is there anything special I should use to clean the rails? All I have ever used for years was either Alcohol or Methanol both seem to work great but just wanted to throw it out there and get your opinons.
Thanks
I see the search function is next to useless once again....I couldn't get a single thread to come up in the first three pages of hits when I entered, "track cleaning".
You have a choice of abrasive and chemical. Ideally, abrasive works really well in terms of short-term continuity, but it also tends to mar the surface of the rails such that even more oxidation and gunk can accumulate on the tire surfaces. Mag wheel polish works very well, and burnishing the rails first with a steel washer works well...if you don't mind all that elbow grease.
Personally, I use 600 grit sandpaper gently on the most problematic areas as they become apparent. Otherwise, once your rails are in good shape, run metal wheels on them every few days at most.
-Crandell
If you don't own a track cleaning car, I recommend you buy one. A good investment is the car from CMX Products. Use quick drying solvents such as acetone, laquer thinner, isopropyl alcohol, etc.
A couple of passes over your track and you will be amazed with the results.
Good luck,
Joel
selector Mag wheel polish works very well
Crandell, which Mag wheel cleaner do you use? How do you apply it? With the old DCC system ever few days I made a few passes with my Train line cleaning cars, now with the SEB few hours and then I am cleaning engine wheels.
Sunday I spoke with one of the so called local experts while at K-10 Trains. He stated "the SEB with its greater power (hum old system was 8 amp and SEB is 5 amp) is causing a magnet field that causes dust to stick to the rails"?
I he was not messing with me, far as I know.
Guess I need to wear a Tin Foil hat while running the trains and see what Area 51 has listed on E-Bay to stop the magnet field.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Ken, I also use the Klunk...the 5 amp SEB. I almost never have to clean tracks. I will spend a grand total of one hour a year cleaning bits and pieces, swiping the sand paper between points and stock rails mostly. That's it. Unless your older 8 amp system was putting a lot more volts to the rails than either of our SEB's, I think he was feeding you a line....frankly. Not on purpose, but on lack of understanding. Each system is meant to provide a safe level of voltage to the rails, not whatever the manufacturer feels like. If the DCC system is NMRA compliant, it should be capped near 17 volts for HO. Yours, mine, his... So I fail to understand his point.
I believe the evidence shared widely that metal tires on rolling stock does wonders for keeping the tracks clean.
I have never used the metal polishes, but it stands to reason that they are chemically meant to lift oxidation, and in every other instance where I have used a cream polish (cleaning silver, for example), it requires some elbow grease and providing fresh surfaces of clean cloth often. So, I would put a bit of the polish on a cloth wrapped around my finger and gently wipe it along the rail tops to keep it from running down the sides and marring the paint job on the rails. Wait a few minutes (or do what the manufacturer says..) and wipe.
Several years back, when the gleam thread first came out, I knew it was a winner. So, I now have a four year old plastic bottle of Black Magic, still unopened. My intention, if not my hope, is that I will use it one day before the next big earthquake running up and down the left coast.
Guess it stands to reason if someone is going to have a odd problem it is me!
Crandell, how often do you clean your engines wheels. I know you don't run them much compared to me.
Old system that ate decoders had 14.5 volts at the rail. I have not checked the SEB, it should be the same.
I wonder if more feeders would help? With out counting I have to guess I have 1 for ever 8 foot. Used none solder rail joiners except in turns or poor contact areas.
Sorry I high jacked this post.
Ken
I put metal whels in my cars, but on my old layout, I think the only time I HAD to clean my track was after painting it, no matter how small a brush you use, some paint gets ont eh tops. I used a brite boy to fix that, and I don't think I ever cleaned the track again after that. Even in an unfinished basement. Things sitting otu would get a bit dusty but the track seemed to just take it in stride and trains would run. A few random locos would ahve flickerign lights - that was dirty wheels or more often dirty pickups.
Whatever you do, especially if there is dust in the air, do NOT use anythign that will keep the rails wet. A wet cleaner that you wipe off is ok, but stuff that keeps the rails wet will only attract more dust.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
cudaken...Crandell, how often do you clean your engines wheels. I know you don't run them much compared to me...
Ken, I don't even run my trains an hour a week these months. I have other things doing, but even then, with my rails collecting dust, I don't seem to have to clean my rails. I start one of the engines at random after five or eight days and set out onto the main. I don't seem to get any gunk except on my few plastic wheels.
So, as I said earlier, apart from the odd section where a joiner fails a bit, and that is temporarily "cured" by sliding it one way, then the other, and then centering it again, or swiping a tiny piece of 600 grit paper between the points and the stock rail one a turnout now and then, I do the square root of sweet tweet with my rails!
cudaken...Old system that ate decoders had 14.5 volts at the rail. I have not checked the SEB, it should be the same...
I am sure you are correct. My SEB, with a digital meter, shows about 13-15 volts measuring on the AC scale (it fluctuates as I read it).
Crandel I have always done what you do, clean track work with mild abrasive either a brightboy or ultra fine sand paper but I was told by someone so take it for what it's worth that if you use abrasives too much you tend to break through the plating on the rails and it only makes your problems worse. Again I can't say this is a fact or not as I am not a metalurgist and I don't think the person who told me was one either. I had been toying with the idea of a track cleaning car but I visited Ken McCrory's conrail layout a while back and he told me all he uses are these little ingenius wipers he made using a few small pieces of stiff wire and a very small piece of paper towel. When the wheels pass over the paper towel they wipe the wheels clean and every once in a while he just slips the towel down and replaces it with a fresh piece. see the picture below. Roughly 90% of my rolling stock run metal wheels whihc I amnot sure makes a difference or not.
Yes, if your rail is the plated type, that would be a concern. You'll also get the undermetal to show after normal use and no cleaning after while, or it will show eventually after wiping with metal polish...no matter what, plating wears. My first engine, now a whopping five years old, has maybe three hours of running time on it, and I see the undermetal showing on its drivers!! It's a BLI Hudson. I sure hope that won't be a trend!
But if you are using nickel silver rail, such as Atlas, Model Power, Micro Engineering, and the sort, it is not plated. It is the same metallurgy all the way through the cross-section.
I pick up an item, engine or rolling stock, regularly at random and have a look at the tires. I rarely find a metal tire that needs a bit of a rub with a piece of waste strip wood. Much more often I'll find a truck on one car with plastic wheels that needs cleaning, and usually one truck is quite a bit worse than the other.
Getting back to the original poster's question - I have to ask .... Are the Athearn engines in question older blue box models with the sintered iron wheels ? If so, that could very well be the problem. Replacing them with nickel silver wheel-sets would make a world of difference.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
selectorI see the search function is next to useless once again....I couldn't get a single thread to come up in the first three pages of hits when I entered, "track cleaning".
Almost a year and I am just beginning to understand the nuances of this search engine.
No these are all Genisis model locmotives, I can't swear to it but I believe they all have nickle silver wheels
Thanks for the tip, TZ. I wish it were more like google.
Crandell:
Just jumping in here, even though I'm not DCC (as you know, LOL!). But I recently acquired the new Atlas track cleaning car, and all I can say is that it's a Bloody Miracle, that little baby! It's a combo we-dry cleaner with a built in vacuum that really works, a very fine textured abrasive wheel for getting up stubborn gunk (finer than a Brite Boy, BTW) and a polishing wheel for finishing up.
I ran the abrasive wheel over the track first, then followed it with the polishing wheel, and lastly, the vacuum. Since I can't use a solvent because of pollen problems, I haven't used it 'wet', but the 'dry' attachments work just perfectly. Three passes around the layout, and you'd think that I just re-wired the entire layout, the trains run so smoothly.
I really recommend this little jewel. It's a little pricey (about $110 or so), and you need a loco to push it around, but it's worth every penny.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Awww...you had to go and spoil it for me, Tom. You mean, if I wanted to use this nifty gizmo, I'd actually have to stand there and play with one of my engines at the same time!? Until it had gone around all my 100' of rails!? Geez, talk about taking all the fun out of it.
A quick note -- avoid using isopropyl alcohol. The club I belong to used it and found out during an open house we had to clean the rails every hour or so. The Isopropyl left a film behind that attracted dirt. We switched to denatured alcohol and went almost four or five hours before we started having issues with dirty track. We also have gone over a month without cleaning track and have not had significant issues. Acetone works well, but one needs to be careful of getting too much on plastic ties and be careful of the fumes. Just my two cents...
Modeling the Motor City
selector Awww...you had to go and spoil it for me, Tom. You mean, if I wanted to use this nifty gizmo, I'd actually have to stand there and play with one of my engines at the same time!? Until it had gone around all my 100' of rails!? Geez, talk about taking all the fun out of it.
Aw, buddy, sorry to ruin your day, the last thing I want to do.
Seriously, that little baby is a lifesaver, at least for me. I really recommend it. And it has instructions on converting it to DCC. Doesn't look too involved, even for someone like me.
I have to wonder if so many folks do not have problems keeping there rails / engine wheels clean, then why is there so many gizmo's made for cleaning the rails?
Tom, what is needed to convert the Track cleaning car over to DCC besides a decoder? Glad you like it, K-10 Model Train ordered 2 for me. All I ask was could he get them. Need to see id I can find the funds to buy one now that you like them.
Because it's one of those things that people will alway sbuy the next 'best' gizmo to come out - because all the previous ones they tried didn't work. They didn't work because they never fix the underlying causes.
Think about how much snake oil there is out there for track cleaning. You have your basic John Allen masonite slider. You have those Centerline cars with the roller, you have the powered cleaners, you have abrasive pad cars (I had an ancient Revell one (yes, that Revell) that had a pair of abrasive pads and a little lever to lift them to runthe car in a normal train), the MDC track cleaners with the abrasive pads onthe front of the boxcab diesel, and on and on. ANd then to go with the devices, you have nearly as many ways of using them - dry, or with any number of liquids, everythign from alcohol to clipper oil. Think of it like how people will pour *** near anythign into their gas tank because it claims to clean the injectors and improve mileage. And ones now even claim they clean the intake manifold. Sure.
Part of the issue is the track. Brass track conducts electricity better than nickle silver, but brass oxidizes in the air and the oxide of brass does not conduct electricity. Nice shiny track does not stay nice shiny track for long if left alone, and when oxidized you can forget getting power to the loco wheels. You can clean it regularly, or you can run trains a lot - just like real tracks are shiny where there is frequent traffic, on a smaller scale this works (at least HO and larger) - run trains more frequently, and the track will stay cleaner. That siding where you run a train in and out of once every 3 months, well, you'll have to do some cleaning there.
Then you have nickle silver rail - the oxide here does conduct, but not as well as clean shiny track. You can get away with more here, but eventually it can catch up to you - same solution, run more trains.
Then there's environment - if your layout is in a dusty area, all sorts of things can settle on the track and intefere with oepration.
ANd then there's the rollign stock. I run 100% metal wheels, no plastics. I've found that palstic wheels, after lots of running, seem to leave a layer on the track. Starting off with clean metal wheels, they seem to do a far better job of keeping the track clean simply by running trains.
I wonder if it just doesn't come down to joiners. I find most often if an engine stalls that if I just slide the joiners, four of them, on each side of the engine, back and forth and then center them again, the power is almost always restored.
It would seem to me that unless there are orders of magnitude of pollution in the air or some other weird phenomenon unknown to science that could make one layout owner's experience a nightmare of cleaning while my layout has never been cleaned (yes really...only a couple of spots, usually at turnouts, and often just the joiner sliding trick does it), it must be something common. The common denominator is the joiners and how many feeders are between the joiners. Assuming that we all have metal tires on our engines, and most of us have at least the odd metal tired car, what could be the problem...metal on metal is what we swear keeps our tracks clean. I agree, and I think my experience is proof of that.
Ken says his tracks are clean, he runs metal tires, but he keeps having problems. Ken's place, I'll wager, is cleaner than mine because he's had to do that in order to figure out why he's having the problems. It must be joiners and their position relative to feeders. In cases where I have a feeder between to pairs of joiners at either end of a section of rail, I never have issues....never.
Guys I found a clip on Youtube last night but neglected to save it on cleaing wheels on enignes. It seems way too simple but it's worth a try. All the guy did was saturate a paper towel with Isopropyl alcohol and lay it on a section of track. He then placed the front wheels of the loco on the paper towel and held the back end of the locomotive with the wheels contacting the rails for power. He put he engine up to full throttle holding the rear so it couldn't move. Wfront wheels spining on the alcohol soaked towel and then turned theengine around and repeated the same proceedure for the rear wheels. When he picked it up the paper towel had obviously cleaned the wheels so the looked brand new. Could be something just as simple as that?
Quite a few people swear by that method, and it has been described on this forum many times. You could hold the tender to the rails, place the entire driver length of the engine on a cloth and see if the cloth stays in one place. I would want to pin it, myself. Otherwise, to keep the coupler from being trashed, I would also place a finger carefully against the front of the locomotive to keep it from wanting to tear out the coupler.
Allegheny-6-6-6Front wheels spinning on the alcohol soaked towel and then turned the engine around and repeated the same procedure for the rear wheels.
Allegheny, I clean my wheels that way. I have used Alcohol, thinner, acid atone and Goo Gone. My favorite is Goo Gone and that is what I am using now. Some one will say that my problem, other like me like using it. (by the way there is more than one kind of Goo Gone) Trains is a lot like body work, ask 10 different body men how to fix a fender, you will get 10 different answers.
Far as metal wheels being the answer, I am not a true believer, I was onces all plastic wheels, track got dirty (I was DC then) started to change over wheels and track still got dirty. At this point DCC and around 300 rolling stock and 85% or higher are metal wheels. If track was staying clean I would not be here now. Guess what I need to do is check to see which cars have metal wheels and pull the other cars and see what happens.
If running trains was the answer, I would be fine. I dare say few here run there trains more than me. I have cut back on the run time, at my hight point around 45 hours a week. I no longer stay up till 2:00 AM running trains, so I am down to around 18 hours a week give or take.
Guess this is one of the questions that will never be truly answered.