Check out the diagrahm. When the SPST switch has the Building lights on the Signal Light does not work. When I shut off the building Lights the Signal will work. I fliped the wires on the signal switch with the same results. The SPST switch is soldered so I don't want to change these unless one of you guys tells me that is the problem. Thanks in advance for your answers.
Assuming the "box" in the center of the diagram is the signal controller, assuming the R, Y, and GR, from the signal light on the left are connected to the GR, Y, and Red on that controller ... what is the purpose of the BR connection that is connected to the brown wire? It is sending power to the signal box when the building light switch is closed. Where is the signal controller getting its power from the red 18VAC power supply?
Showing the terminal blocks is confusing as they look like "signals" too.
The reason I showed the Term Block is to make sure that is not part of the problem. The brown wire connects to the red side of the block and then goes through the SPST switch to the 18VAC side. The signal colored wires goes to the same colored wires at the switch.
The way you describe it, and the way it's drawn there, the only way the signal could work is if the SPST switch was closed. If it's behaving any different, check where that upper right wire labelled 18VAC is connected. It should go to the same terminal on the power supply as the black wire. If it's connected to the same terminal as the red wire, you would get what you describe because the only way anythign would work would be when you select a color ont he signal controller, then the signal light and the buildign lights would all be wired in series.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Ok. I went and double checked. Both Black wires are twisted together and go to the center terminal on the Power Pack. The Red Wire is going to the Outside terminal of the 18VAC side of the power pack.I also double checked the diagrahm and it is all wired as indicated. The only answer I can come up with is to disconnect the Brown wire from the terminal block and go to the other side of the switch. I think this would work but it does not explain why what I am describing is happening, and that bothers me. HELP!!!!!!
I still say there has to be a connection you missed or something. If it all matches that diagram, then there is no way for a complete circuit to happen through the signal light when that SPST switch is open (off). They way it's drawn, with the SPST switch off, there is no connection for the signal light to the red side. The way your diagram is drawn, the SPST switch acts like a master switch, with it off, NOTHING should work, with it on, everythign should get power.
OK. Lets make matters worse. I took the Brown wire from the Signal Switch and connected it to the other side of the SPST ( RED) which means it would be a direct connection to the 18VAC. I left the black wire as is. Guess what. No power to the switch. Please check the diagrahm and see if the Signal is wired correctly to the switch and power source.The colored wire are all connected to there corresponding colors at the switch and signal.Thanks
EDIT post. Wait wait wait. As wired originally (regardless of the diagram) are you certain the signal lights weren't working, or are they just so dim you cannot see them? I am guessing that the structure lighting is sucking up all the current so that there is not enough remaining for the signal lights through whatever circuit is in its controller.
How many structures are there on that block? Do you know what electronics are in the signal controller?
The other possiblity is that there is some sort of stray voltage powering the signal controller. When you throw the switch the electricity by-passes the signal controller (as rringer guessed it is in series with the stray voltage). ----------end edit-----------
hwolfI took the Brown wire from the Signal Switch and connected it to the other side of the SPST ( RED) which means it would be a direct connection to the 18VAC.
Do the signal lights work in this configuration? Are the structure lights on in this configuration? Neither?
No power to the switch.
Please check the diagrahm and see if the Signal is wired correctly to the switch and power source.The colored wire are all connected to there corresponding colors at the switch and signal.
This is what I think you want and have created with the moved brown wire ....but I don't think it is really what you have. I see one more square on your diagram of the signal controller, what is that connected to?!
From what you described originally it seems there is power coming into the system somewhere else. The black wire isn't also a "common" wire with the track somewhere is it? Are you certain that one of the structures doesn't also have a direct power feed.
Lets start from the top.
1. There are 16 structures on the line all burning brightly
2. I due not have the wiring diagrahm or the brand of the signal. It is an inexpense model around $10
3. I disconnected the brown wire from the Red side of the Terminal Strip and spliced it into the red wire on the side directly into the 18VAC
4. The signal Light did not work at all. This is what I meant when I said No Power. Building Lights still turned on.
5. According to what you said it is wired correctly. There are 5 tabs on the signal controller of which 4 have wires connected to them. The other one is empty.
6. There is only one red Wire going to the 18VAC so I think there is no other direct connection.
You may have the wrong wire on the controller hooked up to AC power as the common. Take one of the signal wires, red, green, or yellow, and touch it to the red side of the AC supply and see if that color lights up on the signal. If it works, you will haev to use a meter or continuity tester to figure out just which pin on the signal controllers goes to AC power and which should connect to each color.
Assumign the bulbs in the signal are good for 18 volts - that's a little hefty. Typical small bulbs are good for 14-16V tops. And even if they are rated for 18V, runnign them lower, like 14V, will amke them last longer - and probably make the buildign lights not shine through the sides of the structures.
hwolfOk. I went and double checked. Both Black wires are twisted together and go to the center terminal on the Power Pack. The Red Wire is going to the Outside terminal of the 18VAC side of the power pack.I also double checked the diagrahm and it is all wired as indicated...
hwolf...I took the Brown wire from the Signal Switch and connected it to the other side of the SPST ( RED) which means it would be a direct connection to the 18VAC...
I will give it a try tomorrow but I have triple checked the connection and they are as I said. That why I so puzzled. A question. When the signal has power the switch work from Off to Green,Yellow and then Red.Wouldn't this indicate that the wiring is correct?
Yes, but if you have the black wire fromt he signal to one side of the power supply, and the brown wire from the signal control switch to the red side of the power supply, the signal should be working, unless the bulbs have all burned out. It's a pretty simple and basic circuit. If that's not working when wired that simply, there must be somethign else wrong.
Ok .I took your advice and all is working. I moved the brown wire from the Red side to the Black side. The lights and the signal both are working individually. There most be something in the switch as now both wire(The one from the switch and the one from the signal are both connected to the Black wire. ) I checked the wiring again. If you look at the diagrahn the bottom Term strip at the bottom is connected to a bunch of switch mach and the top wire to a bunch a light. Thanks Again
If it all works with the brown wire from the signal controller connected to the black from the power supply, then there is no way in this world that the black from the signal is ALSO connected to the black side of the power supply. It is simply impossible for it to work that way, unless there are other wires from either the signal or signal controller that we don't know about.
Follow it logically. Let's assume you have the signal controller set to light the green light on the signal. If it's wired like your diagram with the only change being the brown wire is connected to the black side now, the current path would be: black side of the pwoer supply via the brown wire to the signal controller to the green wire to the green bulb to the black wire back to the black side of the pwoer supply - there is no complete circuit here, it can not POSSIBLY work. If it works with the brown wire from the switch controller connected to the black side of the power supply, I submit that the black wire from the signal MUST go to the red terminal of the power supply, or at least not to the same black terminal as the brown wire. If is the only way there possibly can be a complete circuit through the signal control and signal to make it work.
I agree with you 100% unless there is something in the switch. I am going to photograph these connections later so you can see if I am crazy. It's a possibility.
Guess what. When I went to photograph I found the wire that was not on the diagrahm. It is now removed and all is well. Thanks again