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Control Panel Electrical Question

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Control Panel Electrical Question
Posted by hwolf on Wednesday, June 3, 2009 4:20 PM

On page 62 of the new July 09 MR is a great looking control panel. I have three questions.

1. Why would you have Toggle Switches and Push Buttons?

2. Why would you use a metal plate when working with electric that could cause a short? 

3. Why not use a non conducting material?

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, June 3, 2009 4:33 PM

On page 62 of the new July 09 MR is a great looking control panel. I have three questions.

1. Why would you have Toggle Switches and Push Buttons?

Some functions, toggle switches might work better. Some functions push button will work better.

2. Why would you use a metal plate when working with electric that could cause a short? 

Not an issue if you understand electrical wiring. I have made many projects over the years using metal boxes or plates.

3. Why not use a non conducting material?

You can if you want to.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by D&RGWRR476 on Wednesday, June 3, 2009 4:40 PM

 I have a toggle switch and button question as to DCC:

If you  program your turnouts through your DCC controller to make the turnouts move, why would you have toggle switches and push buttons on a control panel? The only thing I can think of is having indicator lights on the control panel.

 

 

Yours In Model Railroading,

John

Littleton, CO

 

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Posted by hwolf on Wednesday, June 3, 2009 4:52 PM

What funtions? You can tell by the locations that the toggles are controlling turnouts.  If you look at his panel he has the push buttons pointing with lines to the same locations as the toggles.

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, June 3, 2009 5:29 PM

hwolf

1. Why would you have Toggle Switches and Push Buttons?

Toggle switch shows direction turnout was thrown last time.  If you need to change it, flip the toggle and push the button.  That way you can use ordinary mini-toggles, which, even with the pushbutton added, cost less, and are a lot easier to find, than double-throw momentary toggle switches with suitable capacity.

2. Why would you use a metal plate when working with electric that could cause a short? 

Why would a metal panel surface cause a short?  There aren't any wires connected to it, and the cases of the switches and buttons are electrically isolated from the internal parts.  OTOH, if the plate is steel the operator could use train symbols made from refrigerator magnets to keep track of where things are.

3. Why not use a non conducting material?

If I had a sheet of steel to use for a CTC panel I'd use it, along with the aforementioned magnetic train symbols.  As happens, I don't have any steel sheet in stock, but I DO have some nicely-configured pieces of flat styrene - so that's what my panels are made of.

One of my plug-in throttles was assembled in a plastic case, with the controls mounted on the aluminum cover.  The optional plastic cover was too fragile to take the stress of throwing the reverse switch, a heavy-duty DPDT toggle.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, June 3, 2009 6:17 PM

 I'm guessing the author uses solenoid switch machines, so there is a toggle to select the direction and the pushbutton for the momentary connection to actually operate the switch motor. Pretty much all momentary toggles return to center, so they woudl not indicate which direction was selected.

 If you used Tortoises you'd only need the toggle.

 Other than possibly automotive switches, the mounting threads of a switch are not connected to the terminals in any way. So screwing them to metal panels won't cause a problem. Personally, I like plexiglas (2 layers) with a printed sheet in between.

 

                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by mfm37 on Wednesday, June 3, 2009 8:20 PM

D&RGWRR476

 I have a toggle switch and button question as to DCC:

If you  program your turnouts through your DCC controller to make the turnouts move, why would you have toggle switches and push buttons on a control panel? The only thing I can think of is having indicator lights on the control panel.

 

 

 

I use pushbuttons on every one of my DCC controlled tunouts. Forget the address and you will have a tough time throwing the switch. Our NTRAK club requires pusbuttons or toggles even if controlled by a decoder. Sometimes it's tough to teach an operator how to throw a turnout with DCC but it's simple to show them how to push a button.

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Posted by JSperan on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:52 AM

 If one is using twin coil switch machines then I think these are well worth the money.

Electronic Turnout Switch

As little as $4 each if you can build the kit version.  Cheaper than an Atlas relay if you buy them pre-built.

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Posted by D&RGWRR476 on Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:26 PM

mfm37

D&RGWRR476

 I have a toggle switch and button question as to DCC:

If you  program your turnouts through your DCC controller to make the turnouts move, why would you have toggle switches and push buttons on a control panel? The only thing I can think of is having indicator lights on the control panel.

 

 

 

 

mfm37

D&RGWRR476

 I have a toggle switch and button question as to DCC:

If you  program your turnouts through your DCC controller to make the turnouts move, why would you have toggle switches and push buttons on a control panel? The only thing I can think of is having indicator lights on the control panel.

 

 

 

I use pushbuttons on every one of my DCC controlled tunouts. Forget the address and you will have a tough time throwing the switch. Our NTRAK club requires pusbuttons or toggles even if controlled by a decoder. Sometimes it's tough to teach an operator how to throw a turnout with DCC but it's simple to show them how to push a button.

 

MFM37,

Thanks for the info. My next questions are:

1. how does DCC tie in with pushbutton controlled turnouts?

2. Is there a need for a decoder to toggle a turnout motor? Turnout motors can be wired to a separate, non-DCC source.

3. Can you suggest a source I can read and study on this topic? I have "DCC Made Easy" but this topic is not covered.

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

Yours In Model Railroading,

John

Littleton, CO

 

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, June 4, 2009 9:19 PM

 1. Some DCC stationary decoders have connections for pushbuttons, so that the turnout can be operated either through the DCC system or by pushing the buttons. Not all have this - you have to look at the specifications to see if it mentions something liek this. And they don;t all implement them the same way. Some use two buttons per turnout, others use just one to 'toggle' the position back and forth.

 

2. Absolutely Not. Just because you run DCC in the track does not mean you need to control your turnouts with DCC. You can wire them right to a power source with buttons or toggles (the old DC power supply you no longer use now that you have DCC makes a good power source), you can even use manual ground throws like the Caboose ones.

 

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by viperj on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 2:29 AM

Like some one said earlier is that if you look at the direction of the toggle in respect to the diagram it indicates which direction the switch is positioned , this is a very good idea as this is a quik glance reference.

As to using metal , He is using aluminium which is non conductive and also the finish is sanded and does not require painting when covered with the milar and you have to be careful not to get your finger prints on it before you laminate the milar to it because the salt on your hand in time will oxidize the aluminium where you touched it.

There is no reason you could not use a non conductive material, but using lexan or plexiglas or fiberglass from a circuit board with the copper removed it may be a little translucent and you may get some visuals looking through the material as apposed to using an opaque material as aluminium.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:38 AM

 Umm. aluminum IS conductive. As stated, it all works because the body of the switch and even the toggle handle is NOT electrically connected in any way to the terminals inside and on the back.

                                     --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by pastorbob on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:05 AM

I know it is "in" to use all the electronic gadgets on layouts these days, but not necessary.  My three deck Santa Fe set in 1989 models some mainline trackage, staging to staging, but the bulk of the main line is actually a secondary branch line that has the most switching and longest run and it was a "dark" railroad.  No signals, passing tracks too short for long unit trains so they were "fleeted", and I use very few powered switches out of the 250 or so track switches on the railroad.  I also do not have control panels, instead each town/yard has a diagram on the facia of the location and toggles to throw any power switches.  Darned if I would buy a decoder for each track switch, and then try to keep track of them during an op session.

And yes, I use DCC, NCE to be precise, radio and tethered and enjoy operations on the layout very much.  If you just want gizmos and gadgets for the sake of being state of the art, then be my guest.  I would rather run trains.

Bob

 

Bob Miller http://www.atsfmodelrailroads.com/
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Posted by oldline1 on Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:53 AM

I used plexiglass for my control panels. I was going to use some aluminum sheet but I didn't have enough and wanted to get them made, installed and working while I was on vacation last week.

I use Digitrax DCC and Tortoise switch machines. My Tortoises use Miniatronics DPDT micro switches to operate them. I also use Radio Shack momentary contact push buttons to control my roundhouse/service tracks. I wired those tracks to be dead unless you press the button. It saves engines in the turntable pit and I don't have to listen to 6 engines sitting there hissing and running airpumps.

I convinced my wife to make my panels on the computer using Paint Shop (since my computer skills are sincerely lacking) and printed them on glossy photo paper. I cut them out and cut the plexiglass to the same size and made a front & back sheet for extra strength. If I can figure out how to insert my photos of the panels I will do that but so far I'm drawing a blank!


Roger Huber

 

 

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Posted by D&RGWRR476 on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:37 PM

 To All You Guys Who Replied To My Questions,

 

Thank you.

Yours In Model Railroading,

John

Littleton, CO

 

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Posted by larak on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:23 PM

roger,

Just click on the tree icon in the editor and tell it where on the web you've stored the photo.

Yes you MUST store the photo on a web server not on your local PC.

Here is one of mine built using a similar process but matte paper. 

Karl

The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open.  www.stremy.net

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